Badass Therapists Building Practices That Thrive
Welcome to Badass Therapists Building Practices That Thrive, the ultimate resource for mental health professionals ready to step into their power, grow their practices, and create a career they love. I'm Dr. Kate Walker, a Texas LPC/LMFT Supervisor, author, and business strategist who's here to show you the path to success.
Formerly Texas Counselors Creating Badass Businesses, we’ve rebranded because, well, we’re way too big for Texas now! This community of badass therapists is growing nationwide, and we’re here to help you create a career and practice you love, no matter where you are.
Every week, you'll get practical advice, proven strategies, and motivation to help you build a thriving practice—one that gives you the freedom to live your life on your terms. From mastering marketing to designing scalable systems and becoming a clinical supervisor, this podcast is your roadmap to leveling up without burnout.
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Badass Therapists Building Practices That Thrive
153 Toxic Supervision: Red Flags and Remedies
Ever felt trapped in a supervisory relationship that's stunting your growth rather than fostering it? You're not alone. In this candid conversation, we pull back the curtain on toxic supervision practices that plague the mental health profession.
Clinical supervision should be a developmental journey where new clinicians discover their unique therapeutic voice. Instead, too many face micromanagement disguised as "support" that creates clones rather than competent, independent practitioners. We explore how supervisors who constantly shift expectations create anxiety-producing environments where supervisees chase approval rather than focusing on clinical growth. When your supervisor doubles as your employer, those dual roles can create a perfect storm of boundary violations and conflicting priorities.
The power imbalance in supervision is real and undeniable. Many associates and provisionally licensed professionals fear speaking up about inadequate supervision or inappropriate behavior, worried about retaliation that could delay their licensure journey. Particularly troubling is the practice of threatening to withhold verification of supervision hours – an abuse of authority that creates fear instead of fostering development.
For supervisors recognizing these patterns in themselves, we offer solutions rather than shame. Connect with communities like our Texas Supervisor Coalition, utilize resources like the Clinical Supervision Survival Guide, or join our monthly consultation groups. Developing as a supervisor is a process, but that growth shouldn't come at your supervisee's expense.
Stay tuned for our follow-up episode where we'll provide concrete strategies for supervisees to advocate for themselves in challenging supervision situations. Whether you're providing supervision or receiving it, remember that the relationship should fundamentally serve the growth of the clinician and the wellbeing of their clients.
Get your step by step guide to private practice. Because you are too important to lose to not knowing the rules, going broke, burning out, and giving up. #counselorsdontquit.
okay, hey, I'm dr kate walker, and welcome to this episode. We're trying to talk about in a very positive way, believe it or not toxic supervisor traits. So so, before you you just go, wait what I mean, think about it for a second from. Uh, wait, how do I want to frame this? Let me start that again. Okay, hey, it's Dr Kate Walker. Say my name, right? Hey, it's Dr Kate Walker. Welcome to the podcast.
Speaker 1:This one is kind of near and dear to our hearts because we train supervisors, we train mental health professionals how to supervise so that they can then meet the requirements for their state to supervise other mental health providers, and so we, I know, feel like we do a pretty good job, right, jennifer?
Speaker 1:I mean, you know the reviews are good, all the things, and then you know, we still hear about supervisees who are in situations that just aren't good. And so having an episode like this where we talk about supervisor traits to look out for and I've done episodes like this, you know sort of like, okay, here's some warning signs, what makes a bad supervisor, etc. But I wanted to dive a little bit deeper and, jennifer, you're going to talk about these things in terms of kind of what you're seeing out there because you see so many comments on the internet and you're such a huge part of going through all the assignments with our graders you know understanding sort of where people are missing the mark. I mean I know you have talked about a bunch of stuff with me and you get a little frustrated when you see what supervisors you know, or I should say supervisors-to-be are trying to maybe put in their contracts or maybe what they're trying to put in their plan or how they're conceptualizing a particular ethical dilemma. And I mean I know you get a little frustrated sometimes.
Speaker 2:Sometimes. I mean it's the age old when there's good there's bad. I mean it's the age old where there's good there's bad. So for every great supervisor there is pretending like there might not be an as great a supervisor. That's just not reality. So it's nice to be able to kind of help supervisees know what to look for and be aware of and know that they're being seen and heard and that their perspective matters.
Speaker 1:Absolutely, and that's a great thing we're going to talk about too. You know associates you do matter, and provisionally licensed folks in other states you do matter. This is, in most cases, an experience that's required for you to upgrade to your full license and you can feel handcuffed, you can feel like you're in a situation that you can't speak up, you can't be assertive, you can't advocate for yourself, and that's not okay. And I'm always going to try to say and and you know supervisors, they progress developmentally just like our new licensees do, and so, in our course, you know supervisors, they progress developmentally just like our new licensees do, and so in our course, you know, we use the term developmental levels level one, level two and level three and we kind of meld all of the developmental models into that kind of verbiage. But as a new supervisor, if you're level one and you're making legitimate level one mistakes, you need to be in connection in community with groups like ours. I mean we have the Facebook group, the Texas Supervisor Coalition.
Speaker 1:I wrote a book, the Clinical Supervision Survival Guide. We have groups of the Texas counselors creating badass businesses. We have this podcast. I mean, if there's one thing Jennifer and I do is we've made it our calling to put resources out there for you level one supervisor and for you level two supervisor. We get it, you're progressing, and maybe you're not doing everything perfectly, and that's okay to a point, until it causes harm and that's what we're really talking about today, when what you're doing could be or is causing harm to your supervisee. And, of course, I have asked ChatGPT for help and Jennifer and I we talked about this beforehand we're like OK, what do we like? What do we want to include? So this is a curated ChatGPT list. So number one is micromanagement masked as support. Right, I'm just helping, I'm just trying to help you along little supervisee. Why is that important, jennifer?
Speaker 2:Well, it's important for a lot of reasons. You know, you come out of grad school and you take your NCE and you get your supervisor and you get your license and you start kind of getting your feet wet and part of that developmental process is discovering who you are as a therapist. Who are you going to be as a clinician? I'm not going to be like my supervisor. I'm going to learn from my supervisor and I'm going to grow from my supervisor.
Speaker 2:But my supervisor is not creating clones, and so when you're being micromanaged, it can be made to feel like, a your clinical decision making isn't sound and, b that you need to be the next Susie Smith therapist extraordinaire. And as a supervisor, you don't want to replicate yourself. I think as a supervisor, one of the greatest things you can do is help your associate develop who they are and that's not going to look just like you. And so when you're micromanaging those clinical decisions, you're hindering that growth that your supervisee could potentially have, because you're trying to make them make every decision as would you and they're not and they shouldn't.
Speaker 1:OK, I can hear the supervisors now. Ok, but what about all the liability? I have to look at every single thing they're doing. If I miss something then the world's going to end. And OK, you know, liability is part of the job. But we know, developmentally, they, being the folks who are under your license, they're supposed to push back, they're supposed to become like you said. They're developing their own identity, their own theory, their own ways of doing things. And when you micromanage, you're undervalued, giving them the impression just like if you, you know, keep cutting your kids meat till they're 15 years old, I mean, what is that telling your kid, right? I mean you aren't helping your supervisee by micromanaging. All right, so, moving on, inconsistent expectations. So one day it's this, but then I'm going to take the bullseye and I'm going to move it over here, and then I'm going to move it up here and I'm going to move it down there. I mean this is kind of obvious why this is important, right?
Speaker 2:Yeah, and it's really just frustrating. You say move the bullseye, I say move the goalposts further down, and it's almost like you're dangling that carrot that they're never going to be able to achieve and that creates a lot of anxiety because then it turns into the supervisees just trying to chase your approval as opposed to again develop clinically. So if I don't know what your expectations are, then my focus shifts to trying to meet set expectations, whatever those are, and I stopped caring about trying to make sound clinical decisions and trying to develop as a therapist, because now I've got to make my supervisor happy and they don't seem like they're ever happy and I'm just chasing you know, all these carrots everywhere. So, yeah, it's not ideal.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so no isomorphism there, no counter transference at all, right, oh my gosh, dad, I can't please you Right, and this you know, when we the inconsistent expectations, it's funny. I was consulting on a case last week and I happened to mention, hey, there's no contract, and the attorney was like what I'm like? Well, no, there's no contract here and actually there's no rule that requires a contract. But if you want to make sure your expectations are out there and transparent and your supervisee has a chance at meeting your expectations, develop a freaking contract and a plan and this isn't ACEs, best practices, it's something that we teach in the 40-hour training, and so when you know that was that's one of the biggest points that we make in our 40-hour training you will leave with a contract that has your expectations for everything from attendance to payment if you're exchanging payment, to how to make up a supervision to, I mean, what theory is available, you know, for you to learn. We want those expectations to be transparent and not movable, because we're preserving the relationship. Right, that's our job, supervisors.
Speaker 1:Okay, so this one overstepping professional boundaries Now, this is probably going to hit you, supervisor business owners, right in the jaw, because this isn't just overstepping boundaries like, hey, it's five o'clock, let's go get a drink, or oh, it's supervision, but first look at all of my Avon products. I mean, yes, those things are terrible. Supervisors don't do that. But this has more to do with dual relationships, right? So, jennifer, talk a little bit about that.
Speaker 2:Oh, this one's such a sticky topic Because a lot, like you said, a lot of practices have built a model around being a practice owner and also providing clinical supervision.
Speaker 2:Clinical supervision and everybody there I said that word everybody goes into that with the belief that I can separate the two roles and and everything's great and dandy and wonderful until you, who are a stickler for showing up at 8am every day, and that is a priority, and you, you're great at showing up at 8am, and then you have a supervisee that rolls in at 8 am every day, and that is a priority, and you're great at showing up at 8 am, and then you have a supervisee that rolls in at 8.15 and 8.30.
Speaker 2:How do you separate, excuse me, how do you separate being their administrative supervisor and saying, hey, this is an expectation, I need you here at eight o'clock, and that not kind of blurring into their clinical approach, because what if they're a great therapist clinically? And so yeah it. I mean, that's just one example, but we're human and I think everybody needs to take a look at like what, what am I as a person? And if, if I am the type of person that it would be difficult to differentiate between, your clinical skills are fantastic and I'm not going to let the bias of you showing up at eight or five every day impact that. But that's a question people have to ask themselves because it gets real sticky. And what if you are a great clinician and you show up to work late? I wouldn't want my evaluation as an associate being dinged because my boss is mad that I showed up at 8.05.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and, and you, let's say, I mean I'm going to expand that because, as a business owner, what if you need that person to do other things, like, okay, I need you to be in charge of the keys, or I need you to help with marketing and write five blogs this month, or I need you to help me with this grant writing project, okay, and then if I don't, am I suddenly a bad clinician on my next evaluation In small towns? Please hear me, we are here to support you If you are a business owner and the supervisor that's. You know.
Speaker 1:I know in Texas, with LPC anyway, dual roles are not prohibited. They are to be managed. Lmft not so much. Lmft is like no dual roles. So it's just, you have to be very, very careful, almost to the point of gosh, I don't know. I mean I would sit down. You know we talked about transparency, contract for clinical work, policy and procedures manual for employment, and that's what we teach at Kay Walker Training in the 40-hour training. We are very, very clear about if somebody tries to put something in the contract the clinical contract between the supervisor and supervisee that really belongs in the policy and procedures manual, and you know that's what we help with. We can't go in there into your business after you've gotten your s and be like oh hey, you know what, you're still blurring those lines.
Speaker 2:Uh, you probably should back off, and you know but again, dress code is one I see a lot in contracts. Um, they will. They will not be an administrative supervisor, they will just do clinical and they will try to put in their contract. What their associate is allowed to wear to supervision Seems normal, right Like business casual, or you, your associate, what they're allowed to wear to clinical supervision. Or are they an employee and that's a standard practice of your group practice that there are only jeans on Friday? And if that's the case, you need to move that into a separate document that addresses things like policies and procedures.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and if you're wondering where Jennifer and I are getting these idea of what's clinical, what's administrative, go to your favorite assessment.
Speaker 1:I mean one that we talk about a lot at Kay Walker Training is the CCSR, and if you Google that, you will see an amazing PDF of an assessment that's commonly used to evaluate associates and pre-grad interns, to evaluate associates and pre-grad interns there. That's all you, I mean, that's really all you can ask and put in your contract for clinical work, and there's nothing in that about you know dress codes or showing up on time. Now can those things become clinical issues? Of course they can, but as the supervisor, starting with that, okay, these are the expectations. They're not going to move around. These are my boundaries and let's go from there as you develop from level one to level two to my colleague interns out there with their ears perked up, and maybe even we've got some folks who are in situations where they're like, ooh, this sounds a little too familiar and I don't know if it's a good thing, but we're going to. I want to talk about one more and let's see where is it.
Speaker 2:I mean we may have to have a part two.
Speaker 1:Oh, I think we're going to have to have a part two.
Speaker 2:Because there's some really good things and yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:I mean. Take part two.
Speaker 2:I'm not dancing, though, no way I know, I'll think it's with you, thank you.
Speaker 1:All right. One last one Chronic unavailability. You know, in Gateworker training 40-hour training we talk about direct and vicarious liability. Direct liability means there's a rule you ain't doing it and dot dot dot. There is a rule that tells the supervisor when they should be available, how often they should be available, because it correlates to the number of supervision hours the associate's supposed to be getting Supervisor.
Speaker 1:If you aren't available and you do a lot of the, hey, you know, you did great this week. Just, you know what we'll call this one signed, we'll call this a supervision day. Or you in Texas, you have to have four hours in a month if you're an LPC associate and supervisor looks down and it's like oh, there's two weeks left in the month and we didn't get all the hours. Oh man, nevermind, we're good, just let's call it good. Those types of things. That is complaint worthy. That's. That is no bueno.
Speaker 1:So if you're an associate and you're hearing this and you're recognizing, oh dang, my supervisor isn't available, I'm lucky if I get two or three hours. Or all of my time is spent in group. That's not okay either. So these toxic supervisor traits, you know this is our number one job. Supervisors, we have basically one job and that is to protect the relationship, to make sure we create a space so that our supervisees are open and honest and transparent with us, so we can facilitate their growth. Yes, we are also responsible for liability and our supervisees, clients and on and on, but it starts with that relationship. And so if you're a supervisee and you're sitting there going, yeah, kate, okay, but I'm in that situation, what do I do? And of course, I'm looking over here at my notes because we are going to have a part two and it's going to be about how to speak up, and that's not easy, right, jennifer?
Speaker 2:No, and the biggest fear, I think, for a lot of supervisees is retaliation and pushback. There is a power imbalance.
Speaker 2:There is unequivocally a power imbalance. We can pretend we can say, but there is, and a lot of associates and supervisees can feel like if I say something, what will the fallout be? How will this impact me? Will they? You know, one of the lines that I see in a lot of contracts is is if the supervisor has any concerns about the clinical skills of the supervisee, I will refuse to sign off on hours. And I, I, yeah, and I always, I always say if your supervisee attends supervision, you cannot refuse to sign off on hours. Right there, if you leave that line in your contract, you're telling your supervisee I hold all the power and if I don't like something you're doing, good luck getting those hours, because I'm not signing off on them and you don't want to enter into any relationship on day one with that hanging over your head. You can remediate, you can discuss. There are so many things in place to protect supervisors. If they have concerns about the clinical abilities of their associates, Right, but threatening hours should never be one of them.
Speaker 1:No, no. And how many times do we see at the end of supervision? Or you know if, if supervision doesn't end well and the supervisor's like, well, fine, I just won't turn in the hours, well, again, here we are. You in Texas, anyway, for LPC and LMFT you had 30 days, that's it. And so you're hanging on to those records because you're going to show them who's boss. You're just going to be the one who ends up in trouble.
Speaker 1:And again, we don't want to leave you hanging supervisors. This is not about shaming you. This is not about you know saying, oh, you know, look, you're doing it wrong. Well, it kind of is, but we have resources. I will never give you a problem without a solution. Right, and the solution is get in community. Get in community. I mean, if it's not mine, find something like mine.
Speaker 1:I mean, we have so many folks in the Texas Supervisor Coalition Facebook page who are willing to help out and answer questions. It's a zero-snark zone. You get forms, you get resources. We don't put anything behind a paywall in that Facebook group. And if you're not a Facebooker, well, come to the monthly consultation groups. We do that. It's usually the last Monday of every month. You just go to the website katewalkertrainingcom. You can find the link to get your ticket to that.
Speaker 1:And again, it's a wonderful supportive place. We don't record it. There are zero replays. It's just a safe place for you to say hey, I thought I knew this rule, I thought I was doing it right. I don't think I am, and help me do better. And we got you. We absolutely will wrap you up in the Texas Supervisor Coalition cozy arms of community, and we will help you make good choices so that if you're doing a toxic trait I mean it's kind of like parenting I mean, you know, welcome to the club, we're all going to mess up, but, like I tell my kids, ignorance is not a defense to prosecution.
Speaker 2:No no no, it is not.
Speaker 1:And if you guys are listening to this and you are following Kate Walker training and all the things we do, you guys know a lot of stuff. So let's make some positive changes and we will get to supervisees. If you're in the situation and you're afraid to speak up, we're going to give you some tools on the next episode. So, hey, thanks for watching, moving on and moving forward. See you later.