Badass Therapists Building Practices That Thrive
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Badass Therapists Building Practices That Thrive
136 Understanding the Texas Counseling Compact with Dr. Kathy Ybanez-Llorente
Get your step by step guide to private practice. Because you are too important to lose to not knowing the rules, going broke, burning out, and giving up. #counselorsdontquit.
All right, all right, kathy, before we get started, in case you missed the commercial, if you need CEs for this evening, your certificate is already in your Kate Walker training profile. We just ask that you leave your camera on and if you would like to ask a question, we do have facilitators so you can use your chat. So take a second and find your chat function, click it and pull it out so that you can see that. And remember we will have an attendance Google form, so we will throw that link into the chat several times. When you see it, click it. You don't have to fill it out right away, but it's great to have open, because once we shut down the meeting, then that link goes away as well. All right, now on to the compact.
Speaker 2:So, dr Kathy, Thank you so much, kate. I appreciate you inviting me to join you and talk a little bit more about the compact. I already see some familiar faces, so welcome. I see you smiling, so you know that I see you, so hello. Yeah, nice to see familiar faces there. Let's see, I'm going to go ahead and share.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I just made you co-host, or I tried to. Yes.
Speaker 2:It's working. I just want to make sure I grab the right one. I want to make sure you can see that. All right, super Okay. And so, kate, you all will be managing Q&A and chat and things like that.
Speaker 1:Yes, and the link was just posted, you guys. So if you want to go ahead and grab that link and open it, and then you'll have it.
Speaker 2:All right, great. Well, thank you for joining me. So Kate reached out to me a couple of people with some questions and we were kind of going back and forth, and she then asked me to do this webinar and couple hour presentations on the compact. So I have a lot of information. I'm actually having to really throw out a lot of extra information that I can talk about, so I definitely want to leave time for questions though. So I'm going to speed through some of this information. I will make some sort of a handout available to Kate afterwards that she can share with you. Some of this is like extra fluff stuff that you don't need. Otherwise I would just share now, but it'd be way too many slides for you. So, but I will get it to Kate and she will get it to you as well.
Speaker 2:But yeah, kathy Ipani-Ziorente, I am an LPC supervisor in the state of Texas, so I've been licensed in Texas since 1998. I've seen some licensure changes over time and that's actually what has made me most interested in licensure regulations. So I'm going to talk about. I am going to go a little bit back and talk about portability efforts nationwide and the attempts to regulate portability across a number of states and what some organizations have attempted to do prior to this compact and what some organizations have attempted to do prior to this compact. I'll talk about how the compact itself was developed and what went into the compact. We'll talk about Texas and where that stands and just current advocacy that you can be an active participant in and then, like I said, q&a as well, participant in and then, like I said, q&a as well.
Speaker 2:So really quickly, in the time that I've been licensed, really actually it was more of my doc programs about the last 24 years about a big part of my life has also been not just being a counselor but also being involved in the counseling profession from a service perspective. So I've been involved in professional organizations and done a lot of different kinds of service. As Kate mentioned, texas Counseling Association, but also TASES, so Texas Association for Counselor Education and Supervision. So professors and supervisors that's at the state level and then at the national level have been involved with American Counseling Association in a number of divisions but have been involved in things like professional standard committees for ACA ethics committee, doing ethics adjudications for American Counseling Association and then also serving as a parliamentarian for American Counseling Association. Next year I will actually be a treasurer for American Counseling Association as well.
Speaker 2:But out of these two service opportunities or these, I would say, at the state level again, what drove my interest in state regulation specifically licensure was being able to serve as the first liaison for TASES to the licensing board. So for five years, from 2006 to 2011, got to follow the licensing board around Texas on behalf of TASES and sit in every single meeting that they had, and of course everyone knows the most interesting meetings would have been the complaint hearings, where you got to really hear what was happening all across the state for licensees. But during those five years my goal and my task really was to ensure that supervisors and educators had a seat at the table and that we were rebuilding a relationship with the licensing board, and so that became really important to ensure that, as licensing regulations were changing in our state, the people who were tasked with educating future counselors we were all on the same page with that and then also supervisors who were doing post-grad supervision again were all on the same page, and so that I would say was probably the most interesting service responsibility that I've done and, again, five years of following the board around. It's probably the one thing. People ask me what do I still want to do? Not really shooting for like presidency of anything anymore. Really, that's probably the last thing that I would like to do. I'd like to serve on the licensing board, so if any of you can help me get appointed I'm just kidding, but anyway, at the national level, we'll see.
Speaker 2:So at the national level. Again, my interest in licensure and regulation many of the people that I knew knew that I was interested in this and that was part of some of the things that I was researching. So they knew I had my own databases related to licensure and when this came up this being the compact I was one of 20 people who were asked to serve on the occupational licensure compact advisory group to create the compact, and so that was in 2019. And so I'll talk a little bit more about that as well. So I kind of joke about things like this is how I spend my free time is doing service to the profession, but I enjoy it so.
Speaker 2:So, national portability efforts I'm not going to go into detail about this because you can talk about this for hours really, but for a very long time, national organizations have really attempted to help professional counselors across the nation find ways to become portable, and we know that every state has their own regulation of professional counselors, and so that also means that sometimes that state's regulations might be different than the state that you currently reside in. So it's not as easy as it sounds to get licensed in another state, and some people have had nightmares of experiences getting licensed in other states. Some people have had easy, easier times, depending on the state, and so there've been a lot of different portability plans that have been created that you know had things like you just have to have five years of practice with nothing, you know, no marks on your license. You know you have to have taken a national exam and that should be enough for a state, another state, to allow you to be able to achieve licensure pretty easily in their state, and something like this. This was through an association that represents licensing boards across the nation. Not all states agreed that that was enough for them, and so ultimately this really became the issue was finding a way that all states agreed that, whatever the requirement was, that it was enough. I'll just say it that way. Some states believed that my state has stricter regulations than your state does, which they never said face to face. They never said that to each other, but that's what it boiled down to so one state believing that they had stricter regulations than another state, and so they really didn't trust that someone coming from one state was either prepared or had the same trainings or qualifications, and there was then never this kind of equal regulation from state to state. So again, just a couple other examples of additional professional associations really coming together so AASCB they represent state counseling boards ACA creating their own, aces, nbcc, omca just different groups coming together trying to find some sort of commonality and some sort of criteria that made sense. This was another attempt in CLEP 1.0 and CLEP 2.0, when 1.0 wasn't good enough. This also failed, and so then we found I'll get to that in a second ACA really has been involved, I'd say at every step along the way, and we'll see in a second where ACA then plays a big part in this.
Speaker 2:But as far as compacts, I'll talk about compacts just really quickly. Most of us are really familiar with how compacts work because most of us have a driver's license. So if you think about how a driver's license works, if you got it in Texas, you are operating your car in Texas but you can drive across the state line and you can keep driving into Oklahoma and you can keep driving into other states and that license will still be valid to continue to drive into these other states and it'll be recognized in these other states. It's only when you move to another state that they then expect you to get a license that represents your residence in that other state, and so that's kind of how compacts work. So we are pretty familiar with how these operate as a nation. We are so familiar with these that it's actually written into the Constitution. So there is a compact clause in our actual US Constitution which we've heard a lot about our Constitution in the last number of months.
Speaker 2:But if this passes we would actually be following our Constitution that has been in effect since 1789. So familiarity with a compact just means that two or more states agree to have a specific policy or regulation that addresses some specific matter or issue, and for us that issue or problem or challenge is licensure portability, so finding a way for counselors to be able to be mobile from state to state. This is just a quick example of actually from North Dakota I just lifted this off of one of their licensure applications. That makes it sound pretty easy that if you want to have reciprocity in North Dakota, you have to be able to prove or show that the state in which you're licensed as a professional counselor substantially meets it's substantially similar to the requirements in North Dakota, and so you have to provide a copy of the laws or rules from your state showing that, with the first requirement being, does your state currently require a 60-hour master's degree in counseling, yes or no? And if it was a yes then you could continue, and if it was a no then it would automatically kick you out. So that 60 hour requirement really is now really the lever right or the lever that opens the door for most reciprocity or portability questions for us and that really kind of became the jumping off point, I would say, for this whole process, for the counseling compact. So just really quickly, advantages and disadvantages of compacts they're pretty easy to enforce because they're standardized across all of the states. It's one bill or kind of one law that is the same. The language can't be different from one state to the next. So everyone kind of that uniformity that we're all looking for, because everyone you know, as this portability discussion happens, people always say well, why don't we just have a national, national regulations for professional counselors? And the reason why is because we're regulated by states. But this provides that uniformity that we're all looking for, right.
Speaker 2:So a compact provides the same requirements, the same expectations. It also allows those states to to retain sovereignty that word comes up a lot too and that just means that states retain the power that they have. No state wants to give up power and so they're able to keep that. And it is then an alternative to being told by the federal government of what to do. States really don't want to be told by federal government what to do and really don't want to be told by federal government what to do, and again, over the last couple of months, and our whole political, whatever discussion states don't want to be told by the federal government what to do, and compacts allow for this. Disadvantages, though, is that it takes a while for this to happen. Compacts typically it takes a while for each of the states to agree to this, so it's taken different professions different lengths of time to achieve a compact status where there are enough states participating.
Speaker 2:Some people may not be as familiar with how it actually works, even politicians or legislators, even though in their state, their state may have a lot of compacts, they may not actually understand how they work because some legislators to them it's a disadvantage, because they automatically assume that if we allow another state to regulate our professional counselors or if we allow other counselors in, we're giving up some of our power. But that isn't actually how it works. And then they also assume that because there's a commission and I'll talk about the commission in a minute they assume that they are in fact giving up some sort of power to this other entity, this other kind of governmental body. So again, it's always about power. It always boils down to power, money and power usually. So once you help legislators understand these things, that they're really not giving things up, they're actually retaining power. They're actually getting money too. That helps this process move along. So compacts, just really quickly.
Speaker 2:Every state across the nation participates in some sort of compact. For our state, texas, has anywhere between 21 to 30 different compacts that they have already approved. So in our state it's nothing new at all, already approved. So in our state it's nothing new at all, which is important to know as we move forward and try to get this compact approved in our state. So compacts are nothing new for Texas.
Speaker 2:There are a number of other professions that have already achieved compact legislation, achieved compact legislation. These are many of them. Sipact is probably the closest to our profession. Sipact was approved back in 2016. So under BHEC, then under the BHEC umbrella, one of the four professions under the BHEC umbrella already has a compact kind of operating under the BHEC umbrella, which is helpful for our state as well. They already BHEC, already kind of understands how this model works Currently.
Speaker 2:There are a number of other professions, though, that have also introduced compacts. So two years ago, in 2023, in our last legislative session, is when, I'd say, a number of these groups pretty quickly realized that it was a good time for them to introduce legislation or try to get a compact created, and so right now we are no longer the only profession seeking to get a compact approved. So that can be a good and a bad thing. Good in that maybe legislators are better understanding compacts, so there are more of them, kind of moving through understanding at the same time. I'm bad in that maybe if somebody isn't a fan of compacts they may say, whoa like, here are all these compacts coming at us at the same time. So that's just something to consider. I don't know what the what the sense is of some of the people who are maybe going to make this decision, but I think it's an important thing for us to know is that there are some compacts that are currently being considered in this current legislative session as well. So marriage and family therapists, social workers as well. But again, that might work to our advantage. If all three of us get approved at the same time and PSYPACT is already approved, then there are four of our mental health boards that all might have compacts. So who knows? I've actually not at all checked the status of those. So if that's going to be one of your questions. I'll just kind of head you off now. I have not looked to see at all what the status might be of the marriage and family compact or social work, so talk a little bit about how it was developed.
Speaker 2:The process itself is a pretty lengthy process, and so the National Council for Interstate Compacts is a national entity. They're not political, so they're an apolitical or bipartisan, however you'd like to say it entity that it is actually their job to work on Compacts. That's what they do. Pretty. It looks like a well-oiled machine, I'll say like coming into the process it looked like it was like they had it down, pat, right, they knew exactly how these things needed to go, which is great. It's just more of the people part is the problem like actually getting people to agree to these things. But this is the actual process. It's a three-phase process of how they break it up, and so I'll kind of talk through each of these really quickly and tell you a little bit about them from state officials, stakeholders, issue experts who came in with the content knowledge and process knowledge to be able to come in to decide what needed to go into the compact. So what were the issues around our profession? What were some of the specific regulatory issues that each of the states wanted to consider or needed to consider, so that we were able to look at the important pieces kind of the big picture pieces and also drill down into the smaller pieces that we had to make sure were present across that. That then would move off into a drafting team. So these were individuals who worked for NCIC and also lawyers, so people who, if you've looked at a bill or a law recently, very legalese, legal kind of language, these were the people who drafted the language around our content. So they came up with all of that information and then they also worked with us, the advisory group, as part of the stakeholder groups, to receive comment or kind of public comment about the bill and then they worked to take that public comment to create the final product. So really quickly, just about this phase one piece.
Speaker 2:Like I mentioned, american Counseling Association had been involved in all of, I'd say, every single one of those previous portability attempts, and ACA is actually who got this process started. So they were actually in a meeting with a representative from Council of State Governments and they went to Council of State Governments and said we'd like to talk to you about what it would take to start this counseling compact. In the end, it takes money just again to boil it down. So ACA since 2018 is when this initially started. It was at that time that the Governing Council of the American Counseling Association voted to agree to the largest ever expenditure that they've ever agreed to, and at that time it was a million dollars. So up to or up through fiscal year 26, aca will have put $1.6 million toward the counseling compact, which is a huge amount of money for a professional association. Without this, we would not have the compact at all, and so so ACA has been part of this process all along, kind of moving this forward Really quickly, part of this advisory group, like I mentioned, it was a really it was a great process to be part of.
Speaker 2:So we had a full two-day meeting in DC and, as part of the group, my interest was, you know, being more of the counselor, educator, but also the researcher who had information on, like all 50 states. But there were people there who were the executive directors of different licensing boards. There were board attorneys who represented licensing boards. We also had board chairs, board members. There were also people who were legislators. We had a couple of actual legislators from a couple of states, one of whom actually was a counselor and he was also then a legislator in his state, which is very, very rare, but was very interesting to hear his perspective. We had a couple of licensees who they themselves had gone through the portability process a couple of times, and then the Department of Defense representative, and that was also very important because that person wielded a lot of power, because anything the Department of Defense gets involved in kind ofed a lot of power, because anything the Department of Defense gets involved in kind of opens a lot of doors. So this was really the group of people who came together again to bring the content piece together. There were quite a few stakeholder meetings across many states.
Speaker 2:So 2019, this was right before COVID we got to meet in person. It was great. We were looking forward to actually having a lot of in-person meetings. After this Never happened again because of COVID, all of the stakeholder meetings all happened virtually, which actually ended up being, I think, a better thing, because more people were actually able to participate and give a lot of feedback as well. But this was the whole process and then the compact was finalized December of 2020. So a pretty quick process overall, but that's the initial part of when that happened. So, just to give you a quick picture of just one of the discussion points that we had, um was what to call it, what to like language to use in the compact and this is still a sticking point for many people across the nation Um, why we used licensed professional counselor in the compact, why we said licensed professional counselor and not something else, and so part of information I had was the fact that, if you look across the nation, we call ourselves a lot of different things.
Speaker 2:So these are all of the titles that we call ourselves across the nation, depending on what state you live in. We're all professional counselors, but we could be called a licensed clinical professional counselor, or I might be called a licensed clinical mental health counselor, or a licensed professional counselor, mental health services provider, or, in Texas, a licensed professional counselor, but in Texas, a licensed professional counselor mental health services provider, or, in Texas, a licensed professional counselor, but in Texas, a licensed professional counselor is the highest level of licensure right, full, independent licensure. In another state, though, an LPC actually means somebody who's under supervision or somebody who isn't fully licensed. So that's how complicated we've made this for ourselves, and that's the problematic piece. So, when you boil down the numbers, though this was part of the information I provided was that this is how many states, though, use LPC as the full highest level of licensure. So, when you look at numbers like this, you can't help but say, well, if at least half of the states use LPC as the title that they call themselves, then that is why LPC licensed professional counselor was used in the bill. So there are still some people not happy with that. We still continue, even past this. You see some changes, which is again whole advocacy discussion, why it's important to still be aware of what happens, or what changes In 2020,. North Carolina used to be a state that called their licensees professional counselors. They actually changed their professional counselors. They actually changed their whole title. They now are called licensed clinical mental health counselors in North Carolina, so they're no longer called licensed professional counselors. So, anyway, still wasn't enough to change the title, but yeah.
Speaker 2:Phase two, then, was NCIC putting together a resource kit, making sure that there was an internet site that people could go to to get that information, provide information to legislators, build state support to be able to get to kind of level one states that would be more likely to pass this legislation and really get this bill passed and rolling really. And so they were able to identify in that 2021 legislative session some Tier 1 states that they felt were more likely to pass this legislation, either because of their interest or support for compacts or their expressed interest in compacts based on those previous kind of town halls that were held. So these were some of the tier one states where more of the energy went to and a lot of the information that was made public was actually quite helpful in providing information to these and other states in moving it forward. Phase three then was once there were enough states 10 states were needed for this threshold to be met, for a commission to be created and then kind of an entity and governmental entity and then actually the compact moving into operation. That is phase three and that's actually where we are today. So, like I said, 10 states were needed to meet this threshold the compact commission. So people who are overseeing the compact then would start to meet. They would create their own rules, bylaws, kind of task forces, their own committees, rules committees, things like that, and then they would have to select a data management system and then oversee that management system and that's where we are system, and then oversee that management system, and that's where we are.
Speaker 2:So what goes into, or what went into, the compact? The model that was used was a mutual recognition model, which ensured that states that joined by joining the compact or their state passing legislation. It meant that they automatically agreed to accept licenses from other states. So no more of this business like I described earlier about. Well, our state requires a little bit more than your state does, so your licensee would have to do an extra class here or would have to do an extra of this, or they're deficient in whatever this meant. If you're joining the compact, you are also agreeing to take people from these other states that have also joined the compact. So, just straight, mutual recognition is what this meant, and that's what these states have agreed to do, and that's what these states have agreed to do. So there are 15 sections in the compact where all of this information is divided out into.
Speaker 2:I've pulled out what I think is most interesting, perhaps, or maybe more relevant for us to know or think about. You can read into all the rest. It's on their website. But I just kind of pulled out the stuff that I think people would want to know and divide it up into chunks too, to make it a little more manageable. But the actual purpose of the compact ultimately is what we've been talking about is to ultimately help counselors, is to ultimately help counselors one be portable, but also really to facilitate their practice, to increase the public's access to counseling, because that's how this is seen is that once counselors are able to have a license or a privilege to practice in these other states, that that's going to increase clients' access to those counselors. So that's kind of the ultimate purpose if we think about it, and the ways that that will be achieved is through these different objectives. So one of the things that they really wanted to stress in this creation of the compact was that there would not be a point at which there would be a lessening of any of the regulations expectation that there would be maybe a little higher expectation than maybe what they had in their own state, but ultimately it was still a protection of the public's health and safety. I would say that's probably one of the more important things to stress. So just because a client was seeing a counselor from, I'll just say, nebraska, just grasping at a state, did not mean that your client was going to be any less safe than seeing a counselor from your own state, right? So I would say that's one of the more important pieces throughout this whole compact. But part of the other piece I'd mentioned the DOD earlier Department of Defense that was another really important piece that came through was that the purpose of the compact also served to support active duty military personnel. Every single licensing body that was not only part of the advisory group, but I'd say probably every group with AASCB, every state counseling board has professional counselors who are active duty military personnel who are forced to move. They have no choice, right. So they have a very difficult time having to pick up getting licensed in a new state and sometimes having a really difficult time getting that done. This was also one of the highlights of this compact that was stressed, and part of that was also the hope then that again we're talking to legislators here, right, they like to support military. Just to be very blunt and very honest, and this was also a hope that that would be something that they would recognize as well. That was a way to help support military personnel.
Speaker 2:There are a couple of other things that are present in some other areas, again providing kind of a uniform requirements. Telehealth is possible. There's an exchange of information. In case of investigations, each state has the authority to hold their own LPCs accountable, so they're not, again, they're not giving up any kind of authority at all, and it just becomes a long-term solution to the problem that we have of portability. So that, again, purpose of the compact, this whole section.
Speaker 2:There are a lot of definitions here and I'm not even going to go through all of these, but it was important to define what some of the keywords were that were used throughout the compact, because, again, this bill is going to legislators who are not counselors, they don't know the work that we do, and so to define these definitions that are being used became really important. But it's also important for us, if we become part of this, to understand what these things mean as well, but the first one being adverse action. So I think this part became important so that we knew that this was really being taken seriously, that the people who were going to be eligible to participate everyone involved in this process was going to make sure that licensees with who did have disciplinary action were not going to be able to participate. So this just speaks to someone who had an encumbrance or disciplinary action on their license not being able to participate. Yeah, kate, did you have your?
Speaker 1:Yeah, I have a question. So, first of all, the mutual recognition. That speaks to something that I actually misspoke about in an earlier presentation. I did because I graduated from a 48 hour program actually 36. And then I took 12 hours so I can get up to the 48. So and I never took an NCE Lots of questions about, oh my gosh, well, what about us then? But what? I hear you, I'll get to that in a second, but is that part? I hear you say I'll get to that in a second, but is that part of the mutual recognition? I'll get to that in a second, okay, okay. Second thing Okay, you may cover this too, but if you in the previous slide you said accountable to state laws, but then states hold their own licensees accountable, yeah, so what goes through my mind is I've got to learn everybody's rules. So that's the other thing, correct.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, and I'll get to that one in a second too.
Speaker 2:Yeah, absolutely yeah, and those are important things to know. Then, right, if I'm going to make this decision, yes, am I going to have to know all of the rules? Absolutely yeah. All of these other ones you can read through. I would say home state is probably the other important term, because that actually is one of the most important pieces. For you to be part of the compact, your home state has to be part of the compact. So home state basically just means where you live, so where you reside, or, as they were describing it as we went through this process, where the IRS finds you, so where you claim residence. That is your home state, and that then triggers a couple of other things. I'll have a little infographic in a second that will show you that LPC I talked about earlier, why that was important.
Speaker 2:A member state is just any other state that is part of the compact, a remote state, very similar. It's a state you don't live in but you're participating in and you have a privilege to practice there. So any state that you don't hold a home state license in, you have a privilege to practice in. That state you don't hold a home state license in, you have a privilege to practice in that state. And telehealth, again, they define that as well for someone who may not understand. But so this is the slide then that will answer what Kate was asking about. This part was, I'd say, the most important part. So for a state to participate in the compact, the state must currently meet these criteria. So the state number two has to require that their licensees pass a nationally recognized exam. So right now the state has to require that their licensees pass an exam. In this law nowhere will you find what that exam is. It doesn't say NCE, it doesn't say NCMHCE, it doesn't say KCREP, it doesn't. There was not that level of specificity put in there because, should that ever change, if this passes as a law, every one of those states would have to go back in and change that law. Nobody wants to do that One. It's hard enough to get a law passed. You don't ever want to have to go back and change a little tiny piece of a law. So it just says whatever that exam is, that's approved by the commission. So the commission we'll talk about in a second they're going to name what those exams are or could be, but in the law, in the bill, it doesn't. It's not named.
Speaker 2:But any state that wants to participate, they have to, in their state, require that their licensees pass an exam, each state. Currently they have to require that their licensees have a 60-hour master's degree in counseling and that 60-hour degree has to have these specific academic content areas. So right now that state has to require this. Number four each state has to require that their licensees complete a supervised postgraduate experience Doesn't name how many hours, again, for the same reasons we mentioned earlier. And number five each state has to have a mechanism where they can receive and investigate complaints. So these are the requirements required for each state to participate.
Speaker 2:So this little box that popped up, these requirements apply to the state, they don't apply to you. So how I told someone once and I was really joking I said it's not about you, it isn't about you, it's about the state. So each one of these requirements is about the state. We're just talking about 50 states and some jurisdictions. That's who we're talking about here. We're not talking about the hundreds of thousands of licensees. Imagine that, right. That's the part nobody wants to imagine. It's not individuals that have to meet requirements, it's the state meeting requirements.
Speaker 2:So if our state becomes part of the compact, everybody in the state becomes part of, or could potentially be part of this. The state does not go in and pick and choose who in the state becomes part of. The whole state is part of, no matter what the requirement was before, whether, like Kate mentioned a 48-hour degree, I took the Texas exam. Some of you may not have even heard of that. There was a Texas exam, right, that is now the NCE, so it doesn't matter at all. So they will not go in and our state doesn't want to. I wouldn't want to do that, nobody wants to do that. So it's the state, it's not people. The state has to meet these requirements. So if there is a state that doesn't require some of these things, that state cannot be part of the compact, which means that state would then have to take their own steps to try to get themselves up to whatever these requirements are if they want to be part of the compact. We meet all of the requirements.
Speaker 2:I will just answer that now. Do we? Yes, absolutely. That was one of the things I mean. I was the only person from Texas there, so was I going to make sure that whatever we were talking about met our state Absolutely For sure? There was not going to be anything extra that we didn't have? We, thankfully, have already moved in that direction long ago. We didn't used to, but we've moved in that direction. Our licensing board has done that. Our licensing board has done that. So the state participating also has to agree to have some sort of mechanism where there's fingerprinting, fbi background checks. We now have that. That's happened over the last couple of years in our state and that might've even been preemptively. Like who knows if this whole compact thing moved that along more quickly for our state. This whole compact thing move that along more quickly for our state.
Speaker 2:It says that states can charge a fee for people to have this privilege. So you know states aren't going to miss out on money. They're actually going to be able to get some money for this whole process and again, each state will recognize the license of other states as well. So the privilege to practice so the way that this works you have to have a home state license and it has to be a full license. So associates are not part of this process. This is full LPCs are the only people who would be part of this process. So full LPC and then you would be able to apply for the privilege to practice in these other remote states if you choose to and however many states you choose to apply to. Again, if you choose to.
Speaker 2:And so in this infographic, if you kind of look at it in this way, kind of like in this arrow, again, you have to have the home state license, you're taking your own jurisprudence exam, but that jurisprudence exam applies to every other state. So any other state that you're going to be connected to you will have to take the jurisprudence exam of any other state that you're applying to to have the privilege to practice in that state, because we are required to follow the rules and regulations of any other state that we have the privilege to practice in. So if one state like I'll just use the example of projective testing, so like in Texas, we can't use projective testing, but if in the state of Florida, florida says you can, when you're practicing with a Florida client and you have a privilege to practice, you could use projective measures and don't quote me on that because I'm not, I don't know what Florida says about that but you could do that with a Florida client. But the minute your five o'clock Texas client comes on with you, you cannot do that. Right, but you need to know the difference in those regulations. But again, having a home state license and then the privilege to practice in these other states, you can still and this is the other difference in this in the bill it does still speak to the fact that if you want to apply to these other states and have a single license with these other states, you can still do that. You don't have to do the privilege to practice but it's cheaper. But you can still do that separately if you want. So if you want to have a full license in the state of Georgia, you can still apply to Georgia and have a full license in Georgia and not just a privilege to practice.
Speaker 2:So, regarding this privilege to practice, like I mentioned, this is tied to your social security number. I mentioned, this is tied to your social security number if you don't have an NPI. But if you have an NPI, that's kind of the tracker for all of this process. Again, no encumbrances on your license. And it says for at least the two years prior to you applying, you have to pay the fees, you have to do the CEUs for your home state. You do not have to follow the CEU requirements or provide CEUs to these other states. But there's a data bank that's being created where you'll upload your CEUs for your home state and so these other states will see that you're completing them anyway. But jurisprudence exams have to be completed for these other states.
Speaker 2:And if, let's say, I have my home state license and something happens in my home state and I lose my license to practice in my state, then my privileges to practice in these other let's say, four states those go away In. Maybe reverse, if something happens in, let's say, I had a privilege to practice in New Jersey, something happened in New Jersey and New Jersey took away my privilege to practice. It wouldn't automatically take away everything else, but New Jersey would report to my home state to let them know what was going on and then my home state would investigate as well to see if that would trigger something else happening. So New Jersey cannot take away my home state license, and my home state doesn't necessarily take away these others. But if I don't have a home state license anymore, that's what takes away the rest of the privileges to practice.
Speaker 1:And Kathy, we've got a question. I think it's kind of it's what you're speaking to. Is it OK if I interject? Yeah, absolutely, so. Each state retains authority to regulate the practice within their borders or in the question is, or will this be shared, and you're kind of explaining that to us? So every there, every state has its own rules. Yes, um, public health protection is important, so it is. Is it maintained because each state is to adhere to the laws of the state where the client resides? Will this mean that there's a complaint or issue? All states share responsibility for the client? I guess it's in. Like Lenika, if you want to unmute and say this better than I am, I want to make sure that I'm saying this correctly, it might be answered in this one.
Speaker 2:So I moved ahead to section eight, because this section speaks to like the adverse action piece and how it's handled and so, like it says, only your home state can take action against your home state. They can't take action against any other. But these states the expectation is that there will be they can initiate joint investigations and so if one state finds that you know you're doing something with your client in Illinois and this is not sitting well with Illinois as a privilege to practice state, then they probably will contact your home state and say, hey, this is what we are finding here. Let's put these two together. And you're Texas, you guys can, you know, do whatever you're going to do with yours, but this is what we're finding and this is the action we're taking.
Speaker 1:Okay, and that's similar to what happens now, if I choose to practice across state lines and my client, you know, is in Oklahoma. Right, it's, it's really Oklahoma protects Oklahoma, right, right, and that's really Texas isn't going to go investigate something, no, right?
Speaker 2:Right. But this is saying if they agree to the compact, they're agreeing that they may initiate joint investigations, but it says and must share investigative materials. So it's saying that each state does not have to start from scratch in doing their investigations over and over. Starting from scratch, it's again a shared resource kind of belief and attempt.
Speaker 2:But all states have to report adverse action into this database, so everyone still has to report that information so that all states have access to that information. It's almost like it's going to become that national practitioner database that we have right that everyone's supposed to be reporting out to, that we get that information from. This now is going to be reported into this database.
Speaker 1:Okay, and we have another question Can we take it or do you need to keep?
Speaker 2:going Sure yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, all right, silky, I see you with your hand raised.
Speaker 4:Yes, thank you, but you may just be getting to this because you started to skip ahead and I was like, oh, I need to ask a question and that was on the slide before this. I think I just wanted to no like section four maybe. Okay. Yes, the stuff in red. Because for those of us who are currently licensed in multiple states, we still have to meet the CEU requirements of all the states. But this is saying we only in the PAC, you only meet your home state's requirements. Is that correct?
Speaker 2:And that reason is probably because you hold a license in that other state. Right, you hold a full license in this other state, yeah, which is different, because you applied to that state and you're holding the full license in that state. So, as a full license holder, the expectation is that you meet all of the requirements for that full license. This is just the privilege to practice. Got it, thank you.
Speaker 2:Yeah, absolutely, and that's, I think, an important distinction, because then these other states right, all these other member states are relying on the home state to be the monitor of your continuing education, right? So, ensuring that your home state is keeping track of, or monitoring, well, that you are receiving the continuing education that that state says you're going to receive, but, yes, as a full license holder, that's exactly why you have to get their continuing education.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and they anticipate that this is going to make it a lot easier. So when you move to another state then they're able just to pull information from the database and make your new license a lot easier to get, and then your previous home state becomes a privilege to practice. So this, hopefully, will help people get their new license in their new state that much faster. Active duty military personnel, like I mentioned, as long as their spouse or themselves, as long as they're active duty, this will make it easier for them. Telehealth was written in as well, specifically stating that, yes, of course it makes sense, but it was written in that telehealth can be used. Has to be in there, yes, but this question came up in the last legislative session because and I think this is going to be a fair question because this is actually going to perhaps bring up new concerns. I think you know there are already some concerns with BetterHelp and you know some of these other large entities that you know. Hey, anyone can receive counseling and text and whatever all of the above. This is going to mean that telehealth is going to be happening at a greater rate and who is going to be overseeing this and what body is going to try to benefit financially. Again, just being very honest, where's the money going to be going? And that was a concern that someone in our state, one of our legislators, brought up, and that's a business issue that someone's going to need to follow. But anyway, different question, so adverse actions the commission then, once the commission was created, just spells out who's on the commission, what they do. It's really each of the licensing boards. There's somebody from the licensing board that is on the commission. So, again, that retention of power, that's how they retain the power, because they have a licensing board representative that is on the commission that's overseeing how these regulations are happening. So, all of these parts, this is where you get into a lot of the language more legally. But the data system, this part has maybe taken a little bit longer because this has actually been created from scratch. There wasn't an actual data system that existed already, and so this is where ACA has more recently put more of their money toward, put more of their money toward. I will also share and say so. Nbcc has recently also put some money toward the database for the creation of, and this database then is also going to be shared with the occupational therapy compact and the audiology speech hearing compact as well. So hopefully that will help it to move along. But once that is created, what they're anticipating is that later, either at the end of the summer or beginning of the fall, is when these privileges to practice will actually be issued or start to be issued, and what they're looking at is about $30 for the privileges to practice. The cost of those is what the cost is.
Speaker 2:Oh sorry, there we go. Date of implementation. Well, the date of implementation was a little bit different, but anyway, I'm going to skip through these for a second. So there's a whole website and once there were enough states and it was 10 states this entity became a gov. It used to be a org. It became now kind of a governmental agency or entity. So you can find all of this information or a lot of information on the counselingcompactgov. You can find toolkit information. They have a legislative summit so you can watch some of the YouTube videos about the compact itself and how they operate. You can also watch some of their or attend their commission hearings. Those are open public meetings also, but they still have some FAQs up.
Speaker 2:So, really quickly, just to show you how quickly this happened, this is a part that I think is most interesting. It took 30 years for our nation, for every single state, to achieve licensure. 30 years. It took. It took three and a half years to get to the point. I'll show you in a second. But February of 21, there were three states that really quickly proposed legislation Georgia, maryland and Nebraska February of 21. By November of 21, georgia and Maryland had already passed it. And then there were four more states that had proposed and everyone was very optimistic that they would meet that 10-state threshold by July of 2022. That was the date they said by July of 22,. For sure, we'll have 10 states. This is how quickly that happened. It was April of 22 that 10 states had passed this legislation and by August of 22, there were 17 states that had passed legislation. So that quickly. That's how many states realized that.
Speaker 2:Again, this portability issue, and so many of them this is the part that is always interesting to me is how many of them are next to each other. Right? This is what we always thought. Is that about portability? Is that the states that were next to each other were the ones that were most likely to already have reciprocity agreements or these ease of portability kind of agreements in place, and that wasn't always the case. But so many of them are right next to each other, right Again, which is great, quite helpful. But this is today.
Speaker 2:So there are now 38 states that have passed the counseling compact, which means once that 10 was hit, this became real. So there is a counseling commission that is in place. They have a board of directors. There are ex officio members as well from ACA, umca, a couple of other entities that also sit on the board, non-voting members that are overseeing this whole process moving forward. But there are 38 states right now that are part of the process. The light blue are the states that currently have legislation filed to perhaps be part of the compact moving forward, with Texas being one of them.
Speaker 2:So I'll skip over this for a second. You can kind of read through it. But the commission very well structured, with a lot of oversight, a lot of different committees. They have their own meetings. Like I said, you can watch these, so you can go to and click on when they have their meetings and you can attend. They're on Zoom. You can actually listen in on their meetings.
Speaker 2:But as far as achieving portability, this is a question that I always see. I've been off Facebook for about a year now, but I go in specifically to look for things sometimes and I always go into my counseling groups that I belong to and one thing that I always see is that people inevitably say, like, why isn't our licensing board, you know, helping us to get the compact One? Licensing boards can't help you to do this. Licensing boards are actually not supposed to support, speak to or do anything about legislation and I'm finding myself trying to actually lower my voice. Right, no one's in my office with me but they're not supposed to, right, they are not supposed to support, endorse, they're not supposed to say anything about legislation. It is not in their purview, they are not supposed to do it. Our licensing board, twice now have put out resolutions. They have in print, put out in their public meetings, resolutions saying we are for this right can say that our licensing board is not supportive of this. They have gone out of their way to show their support, quite supportive of this happening. They are in no way against it happening. It is not up to the licensing board, it is up to our elected officials. So, elected officials.
Speaker 2:So right now in our state there was a House bill, is a House bill 1537. This is just a screenshot. If you go to Texas legislature online, this is the screenshot just today. That shows you exactly where it stands. But it was filed in December of 2024, right. So House Bill was filed. It was referred to the Human Services Committee in March 12th of this year with the hope that the Human Services Committee would hear it in their committee and then move it through the House and get it voted on. Hear it in their committee and then move it through the House and get it voted on.
Speaker 2:If you've been watching what's been happening in our state, they've been derailed a bit. A lot of their time has been taken up by school vouchers and now they're having to catch up on everything else. I will just say that. So now it's catch-up time. I was out of state yesterday with ACA actually, so I've actually never not gone to TCA advocacy days and that was yesterday. So I don't know what happened yesterday. I don't know what the response was yesterday, but I do know from the TCA blasts that they were encouraging people to contact the Human Services Committee to get it heard in the Human Services Committee so that they can get it out of the committee and voted on in the House, on in the House.
Speaker 2:So two years ago I testified before. It wasn't this committee, it was a different one, but I testified before this committee or a committee. It went into the House and it got voted on and it moves through right, very little opposition and then it got held up in the Senate. So right now there is an exact bill again. The language can't be any different, but in the Senate there's a Senate, bill 498 that was filed. That one was filed in November of 24. That one is sitting in the Business and Commerce Committee, which that's a good thing. It didn't go back to the one it got caught up in last year or two years ago, so but it's still sitting in that committee right now and hasn't been heard yet in that committee either. It needs to be heard in that committee, voted on in that committee and then moved into the Senate so that it can be moved on again, hopefully favorably. It was voted on favorably last time. That's the hope that in the House, but it never made it to the Senate.
Speaker 2:There have been different things that have been said. What happened last time and again, just being very transparent, what happened two years ago was the person that headed that committee said I will not bring this legislation or any other forward in my committee until somebody else in this other committee moves my bill forward. And that's what they did. They held up all of the other legislation until theirs got moved and the compact never got moved forward, and then end of legislation two years ago. So that's how the counseling compact was basically dead on the vine two years ago. But this is where we sit today, so right now it hasn't moved forward into committees.
Speaker 2:The session ends June 2nd, so we have a handful of weeks left for this to happen. If it does not happen by June 2nd, or if we have extra weeks or whatever might happen I don't this is not on the governor's radar as a special session kind of thing, but uh, if it doesn't happen this year, we will be sitting watching those 38 states plus any other states that start to participate. We'll be watching them for the next two years seeing how this works, which might also be a good thing, see how it works out. But we then will not be able to be part of this until we introduce it again two years from now, in 2027, when our legislative body meets again, and then reintroduce this exact same legislation, because it can't be any different and then try again in 2027 to be part of the compact.
Speaker 2:So, tca if you're a member, they send out their updates. You can go to their public policy page as well. You can click link their public policy page as well. It can. You can click uh, link to some information. You can go to the ACA webpage too if you want more information about the compact itself. It won't necessarily give you Texas information, but you can link to information about the compact um itself. So, um, yeah. So that's my email If you have questions, yeah.
Speaker 1:Such wonderful information. Thank you so much. And we do have questions.
Speaker 2:I'm going to take this down, unless someone wanted me to click back on something.
Speaker 1:I'm going to back up a little bit. Lenika, I wanted to check back with you and make sure I had your question answered. Did you feel like that was answered? Would you like to unmute?
Speaker 3:Oh no, I unmuted it and that was answered. It was answered. Thank you so much, I appreciate it.
Speaker 1:And then, you know, I was watching Facebook as I do today, and someone posted in one of the groups that since neither compact has or it hasn't left the House or the Senate, it's not, is it no longer eligible, and was that something that I don't know what?
Speaker 2:the cutoff. I think there might be cutoff dates or something, I don't know what. That is A colleague of mine. She and I normally we actually have been going to the legislative things together, harry Glossoff. We both were actually at ACA. She's the current ACA treasurer. We were at a budget meeting at ACA and so we were both traveling together, treasurer, we were at a budget meeting at ACA and so we were both traveling together, and so she emailed TCA, uh, the legislative NOAA, I don't remember his last name. She emailed him but didn't get a response. But, um, I think there's some sort of cutoff dates or something. But I just know that the session itself ends June 2nd. Um, so again, like, like I said, I would have gone yesterday. So hopefully they send out a blast of some sort, because hopefully there is still time to move these through committees and then get them voted on.
Speaker 2:There really was not a lot of opposition when I testified last year.
Speaker 2:The question from the committee itself was about the telehealth piece, about, like you know, who's going to oversee these.
Speaker 2:You know these companies that are going to jump on the telehealth piece, and and I basically said you know that is a business question that there would need to be some sort of oversight that is completely outside the purview of anything counseling related. And the only other question that, as I went with some TCA representatives from two different legislators offices outside of the advocacy days, I did have somebody ask me about this, and actually this might be a question because of our current political climate, but I had somebody ask me about this. They asked me about the content area of the master's degree, and so they asked me about B, the social and cultural diversity part, and my answer was that this has always been part of our profession, as it is part of all the mental health professions, and I'll just share with you what I tell everybody that I did even before this person asked that question, I did a quick look around that person's office to get a flavor of who that person was, and so I then gave him a quick example of how he fit into that social and cultural diversity content area, and so I asked him if he would want a counselor who then understood his social and cultural diverse categories or, you know, needs as a potential client, and if he would want someone competent in those areas. That was my answer. Part of the answer.
Speaker 1:What was his answer? What did he say?
Speaker 2:You could tell the answer was yes, but that wasn't the point of his question. You could tell the answer was yes, but that wasn't the point of his question. Yeah, so it's a little hard for someone to say yes when they're trying to make a different point. Right, but I'm glad. But I did not answer his other question. I answered how he was relevant and how, again, how he fit into diversity and yes, but anyway, I I again don't know if that has come up, but given our current climate, again there are these little buzzwords that everyone is catching, but this has always been.
Speaker 1:No, this is good. So let me back up a little bit. Michelle wanted to know about the $30 cost. That was a $30 cost per year and per state.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so just yesterday in the meeting I was in. So Lynn Lindy is the. She's one of the head directors over at ACA and she's actually the representative who she's done like all of the. She was actually a TCA keynote last year. She's done like all of the. She was actually a TCA keynote last year.
Speaker 2:But she is the one who mentioned that in the recent commission meeting that they had agreed on the $30 cost. So you, if you become part of the compact, or our state does, then you would be paying to the commission that $30 fee to have a privilege to practice in whatever state you're selecting. So that would be for that one state. So $30 for a privilege to practice in North Carolina, $30 for a privilege to practice in Ohio, $30 for Illinois and that would be. She didn't say annually, but I don't know. I'm not absolutely sure, but the expiration dates are tied to your home state license. Ours is by is every two years, but I don't think all states are every two years. So I can ask, I can email her and find out. That's a good question.
Speaker 1:And then Michelle commented 498. I'm assuming that's the Senate bill number.
Speaker 2:Yes, Senate Bill 498 and House Bill 1537. They're actually linked to each other, so if you go to one you can see the link to the other one on that same page.
Speaker 1:So Kara wants to know if we are licensed in another state. That is part of the compact. Could we potentially still join, or is it home license?
Speaker 2:only it is home based. Yeah, it is home state. So, like Silky asked earlier about, like having to do continuing ed in these other state, in another state where you're licensed, it has to be your home state. So yeah, unfortunately you can still have that single state license in florida, but if you live here, then it's going to be based on living here and then, uh, kristin neekirk, it looks like your question was answered, and that was the thing I was confused about as well.
Speaker 1:So, and then Cheryl wants to know what can we do to push this through? I take it we should call every representative and senator in Texas or go knock on their door.
Speaker 2:They're meeting there they're actually in Austin right now the Human Services Committee for the House, and then the chair of the Business and Commerce Committee for the Senate, and I would say, anybody who is on that committee, though, because if somebody maybe feels strongly on that committee, then they could probably encourage or kind of move it along.
Speaker 1:And again, if you go to the TCA website, they've got links to this, they have information, they have you know, if you don't know what to say, I always get nervous when I go to the capital and I'm knocking on doors. I mean, tca has talking points, um, yeah, uh. Shell wants to know is there a limit per state and once that limit is reached you can't join that state?
Speaker 2:Like a limit on privileges to practice.
Speaker 1:Cheryl, you can unmute if you'd like.
Speaker 3:I don't know where I got that idea, but I got the impression that each state would only offer so many seats for other states to be able to come on in, and once that was met, nobody else could join the conference.
Speaker 2:I haven't heard that specifically, but I think it's a valid question because one of the I guess some of the question has been about markets, if you want to call it that. You know, if you think about a state that may or may not have enough counselors if people come, if a lot of people come into a market that already has enough counselors. So, like, let's take our state, for example, we have plenty of counties that don't have counselors. That's actually where we need extra people to be of service, right, that's where we need people to help with those clients. We wouldn't necessarily need extra counselors to come into the cities or areas that already have plenty of counselors. So I think that's a valid question, but I've not heard that at all and it's nowhere in the compact language.
Speaker 3:So part of the challenge that you just mentioned is those counties that really need help. A lot of them are in internet deserts and recently the things that our current political administration has done has actually hurt things that we're supposed to move forward to help with internet access in those areas. Yeah, that's another issue.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, I'm going issue. Yeah, yeah, I'm going to follow up on that question, but I've not heard of that.
Speaker 1:What other questions do you all have? These are great. These are great questions. You can type them into the chat or you can use the raise your hand function if you'd like Great links. Thank you, aubrey. Thank you Sidra.
Speaker 2:Shel, thank you for doing that. One of the I would say when you call and hopefully you call and you encourage your friends to call and kind of get this move forward. One of the important pieces and that's why I said this earlier about you know, the purpose of the compact really is about client access to services. It is that right. But I'm sitting here looking at many of the counselors I know we're thinking about this from a counselor perspective, right, and a business perspective in that piece and I'm saying this because this was almost an answer that I gave that I had to immediately stop and think wait a minute. You know being able to provide services, but what we're talking about, then, is if being part of the compact means that I'm going to be able to offer services to people outside of Texas. What I just said was I'm going to offer services to people in New York and I'm going to offer services to people in Georgia and I'm going to offer services to people in Oregon. That's what I was about to say, and if they were quick enough to pick up on what I was about to say, so then I thought that's not how I need to answer this question, even though that is, in fact, what we're talking about, right? So I encourage you, though, is yes, as a counselor, that is how we would use this and, yes, that is how it is used. But part of the answer, yes is also that it is to increase access to services for clients, and that is also something that all of us care about and it's something that we know realistically, from whatever population or setting that you work in whether it is agency, hospital, private practice, insurance, private pay access to services not equal, not easy, it's difficult, no matter where and how. Right.
Speaker 2:So, anyway, I just encourage, because I did that and I had to stop myself for a second because I was thinking about when I said earlier about, it's not about you. I had to stop for a second and think hold on, it's not about you, it's not about me. Let me not make it about me for a second, because my answer then is going to shift outside of Texas, and our legislators your legislature, my legislator, is interested about in Texas. That's what they care about is in Texas. So how can my answer ensure that I get them to understand the importance of in Texas? That's what they need to understand. And, yes, you were in Texas and yes, I'm in Texas and it would benefit me in Texas, but the way you phrase it is important.
Speaker 1:Cheryl, you're asking about supervising an LPC from a compact state. Most state rules say that you have to be licensed in that state to supervise those experience hours. So supervising is not counseling, so it's not really part of the compact.
Speaker 2:Yeah, supervision is nowhere in the compact. It's not included in here, and it was for the reason of ensuring that anything in the compact was just related to independent practice, and so it was just about an individual having a license, seeking a privilege to practice in another license, a privilege to practice in another state, so it would have nothing to do with supervision and oversight or anything else. It was really to lessen all of the possible complications.
Speaker 1:And I'm assuming insurance is out of the scope of a discussion like this as well, because it's really up to the insurance. You know they're going to make their own rules. That was our next question here.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I haven't been on some of those conversations. I actually have not really looked for them, to be quite honest, but I know they're happening out there. There are more some colleagues and people who are, you know, writing about, definitely about some of the, you know, ethical issues and ethical considerations related to remote practice and telehealth practice, with a lot of them being the whole issue related to the different like jurisprudence or rules related to this, things related to crisis situations. So if you're providing telehealth practice as somebody who you know lives in Michigan, do you know where to refer them in Michigan? If they live near Lake Erie, like what's going to happen when they have a crisis and you're doing telehealth with them, you know how are you going to handle that issue. The compact doesn't speak to that, but other than to say you need to ensure that you're following the rules of what's expected in that state.
Speaker 1:Well, kathy, thank you for going over. I appreciate that so much. I didn't want to stop you because the information was so good, and so we have a lot of people who hung in there and that's awesome and I appreciate you all so much. This is great information and there are so many rumors going on. You know it's just hard to get good information and well, unless you attended this and now you have good information. So, kathy, thank you so much for all of your wisdom and information and the experience you bring to this discussion, because this is truly, you know, something you have been a huge part of. So I really think our group is fortunate to have you tonight. I appreciate it Absolutely.
Speaker 2:Yeah, like I said, happy to talk about it. It is like I said. I hopped on the chat really quick to look at it and someone said it's infuriating. Yes, it is so, as are some of these things, and hopefully, you know we'll get some of these things together. But the more we know that we're being supported and that's why I pointed out about the licensing board and I know there are different things that you know we get a little upset about. This is not one of them. This is not one of those things. So they've been in full support of this, yeah, so yeah, like I said, I did say at the beginning I would get this to Kate. I'm going to take out a couple of the like fluff things that aren't necessary, but I'll get it to Kate and she will get it to you. But I'm going to take a second and go back through some of the questions I may have missed and I'll look up some follow-up questions too for some things you guys asked.
Speaker 1:And I will put the PowerPoint and any information or resource that Kathy gives me. I will put it in your Kate Walker training profile. I'm not gonna email you, remember? I broke up with email, so that's going into your profile. So you'll just need to go back and check and hit refresh and it should appear there. The attendance link is back in the chat as well, so if you missed that, please click it, because when I close the meeting that link goes away. All right, I think did you catch everything. Kathy, you feel good about the chat.
Speaker 2:I'm going to go through really quick if you don't mind. No, go for it, yeah.
Speaker 1:So, but it was great to see. Thank you so much for being here. Have a wonderful evening. You know, it's funny because I was checking uh the discussion that I saw on facebook today. Let me hit record. I'll pause.