Texas Counselors Creating Badass Businesses

91 Six Strategies for Expanding Beyond the Therapy Room: Harnessing Therapy Technology, Clear Messaging, and More! 

• Dr. Kate Walker Ph.D., LPC/LMFT Supervisor • Season 3 • Episode 91

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What if you could transform your professional path and secure a successful speaking career simply by understanding your niche? Join us in this episode, where Cindy, the inspiring mind behind the YouTube channel "Forgetting Freud," shares her journey from therapist to renowned speaker. She opens up about how addressing the topic of grief helped her gain significant traction and how putting herself out there allowed her to identify unique market gaps. Hear her story of creating impactful training programs for law enforcement and first responders, and how this focus led her to become a sought-after subject matter expert in law enforcement marriages and relationships.

Cindy dives into the essence of key messaging in public speaking, stressing its importance in making a connection with your audience, particularly law enforcement officers. She reveals her strategies for crafting messages that resonate deeply and addresses specific pain points, ensuring the delivery of valuable insights. Listen as she discusses her work with Code 4 Couples and her book "Hold the Line," offering a treasure trove of resources and tips for becoming a paid public speaker. Cindy’s insights into the ethics of side hustles and the monetization of public speaking are not to be missed.

The episode also delves into building an audience and the marketing prowess needed to sustain and grow your professional reach. Cindy highlights the power of personal storytelling, blogging, and leveraging various platforms to connect with your audience. She shares her seasoned advice on effective SEO practices, using LinkedIn for client engagement, and strategic pricing for speaking engagements. From personal anecdotes to practical strategies, Cindy’s journey provides an inspiring roadmap for anyone looking to expand their professional horizons through public speaking.

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Speaker 1:

was kind of a cool deal. Oh, we got to do that part too. Yeah, totally, that's okay. Yeah, so you know, I definitely stumbled along the way. I now have a kind of a little bit of a formula that I follow that I let people know about.

Speaker 1:

I've always been one of those weird people that has wanted to use technology in some way. My business partner, brandy, and I had a YouTube channel for a couple of years called Forgetting Freud. It's still up. Our grief sections were our most watched and still are our most watched YouTube videos, as it goes. It also wound up helping our office a whole lot, and I also put my early podcast episodes up on YouTube too, and if you go look, I'm in a closet doing a podcast.

Speaker 1:

So none of this is glamorous. It was all like not very polished. It was very kind of like I did the best I could and then grew along the way. A lot of it, too, was just putting myself out there, trying to speak at conferences, speaking for counselors and helping to educate them, and then starting developing messages that I wanted to make sure to communicate and that grew into some paid speaking gigs, which I know we're going to dive into that a little bit.

Speaker 1:

I also wrote a book it's over there, um about, uh, law enforcement, marriage and relationships, and there was not one out there, so it was identifying a gap and filling the gap, um, which has been really good. So, um, now currently I have a product to train, the trainer program that I have done off of that and speak regularly and work with a lot of national organizations and seen as a subject matter expert. The thing is is I went outside of my field, right, I went outside of the field of counseling to the field of first responder and law enforcement primarily, and that's where they pay me to come in to speak, and part of it was figuring out who has the money, because, as much as I would love to have small, tiny organizations come in to pay me to speak, it doesn't work that way, and so part of it is figuring out what's a fee that works. Part of it is what are you going to speak about? And mine is just a niche that nobody was filling, and so that's how I wound up where I am primarily, and I'll stop.

Speaker 2:

Well, Cindy, you talk about messaging a whole lot, and I want everybody to put their questions in the in the thread here in just a second. All the questions and I and I know you're going to come back to messaging again and again, and the thing I want to tell folks it's when I first got Cindy's message, it was and I'm going to say it wrong Cindy. I always do, but it's happy marriages create safer police officers.

Speaker 1:

That's you know what. If that's what you walk away, that works just fine.

Speaker 2:

And to me, that just grabbed me because there's the data. She had the data to back it up and that's a message that grabbed me. And I don't run any police forces, right, I'm not in any position of power, so I could imagine if that was, my job was to keep police officers safe. And I saw that piece of data. It was like, oh my gosh, I have to have her come and speak. So messaging is so important with this, if not the most important thing when you're trying to make a living outside the therapy room, right.

Speaker 1:

Yes, I, yes, I agree, and when you come to those messages it they they're ones that I think have to be unpacked over and over again. By the way, it is now hailing outside, so whatever you're, getting is passing through me so I can hear it outside.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, so those messages really have to be unpacked over and over again, really thinking about what do you want your audience to walk away with and to know? So, even when I was honored to do a keynote for TCA, for Texas Counseling Association, at the conference in 2020. So it was all tech conference that was the first time, but I was honored to give that and you know those key, what I wound up, what I was asked to talk about, was resilience and so making sure that I had my key messages that people walked away with. And having those key messages over and over again are really helpful. There's different aspects to that, but those key messages for me when I developed them for Code 4, is the one is anything that keeps an officer safe has potential to spill over negatively in the relationship. The second one is anything that keeps an officer safe has potential to spill over negatively in the relationship. The second one is exactly what you say that healthier relationships. Relationships are essential to healthy officers and then healthier officers make healthier communities. So there are aspects to all of those where I unpack them over and over again. It's. I mean I could talk for probably eight to 16 hours about the very first one.

Speaker 1:

So, really, looking at how and I, we could talk about how I developed them or how we, how I recommend you go about it, but those key messages are really important and you get tired of saying them. I have come to a point where I'm like surely everybody has heard me say this and you don't want to hear me say it again because I get to ask to speak multiple places. But just the fact that you're like, oh, I can rattle off one of Cindy's messages, it's good enough, right. And so to me it's the impact that I'm going to make with those messages over and over again. So key messages are like number one. So my number one that I always say is clarity. You have to have clarity, have to have clarity on your niche and you have to have clarity on what you want them to walk out with. What are these key messages that are going to address their pain points? So when you know your niche, you know their pain points, right, and then, after you know their pain points, then you can address the messaging.

Speaker 2:

Okay. So I'm going to back up a second. I'm dropping links into the chat for, in case you're not familiar with Cindy's work, if the arena of law enforcement isn't your niche, then I've dropped the links in so you can get an idea of how she's gone outside the therapy room. So we have code for couplescom, which is not her practice. The con branch counseling in Denton, texas. We have the podcast and then we have her book Hold the Line.

Speaker 2:

And so I want folks to I mean, really drop messages, drop questions into the chat. I mean I have some that are as simple as why should I have a side hustle, right? I don't know if that's where you guys are. I think if you're here, you're probably determined to have a side hustle, which is wonderful, and we can talk about the ethics of side hustles and we can talk about why it's important, things like that. The other questions these are from the Google machine. How can I become a paid public speaker? How do I monetize public speaking? How do I sell myself as a public speaker? Are podcasts a good way to make money? So am I sprinkling any questions into your heads here? Does anybody feel like dropping something into the chat? Otherwise, cindy and I are just going to keep going.

Speaker 1:

We're just going to be talking heads, so let us know if there's something that you want to do for sure. Yeah, so I can talk about also. Oh, share further about pain points. Oh, I love, yay, yay, thank you for the questions. Yes, I can talk further about pain points and what that has to do with niches. So when you think about a niche or a niche or however you want to say it, I say niche. Maybe y'all are fancy and say niche, but when I think of that, what you are doing is you're selling your.

Speaker 1:

What are their pain points? Why are they coming to you? So when I think of my community, normally their pain points are. I mean I rank like number one on law enforcement divorce. Like that's what I rank number one on is law. I think it's number one or number two law enforcement divorce. Right, so in law enforcement or in first responders cause it does apply to a lot, but I niched down to law enforcement. It's what are their pain points? Why are they going to search for you? Why are they looking? What's getting them to type, you know, and go into Google and search for you? Why are they looking? What's getting them to type and go into Google and search for information, and that's where you have the pain points.

Speaker 1:

It's the same thing in the therapy room that just putting out there that you're a great counselor and that you specialize in working with anxiety and you do EMDR many times isn't going to get people to connect, and you do EMDR many times isn't going to get people to connect. What I think Kate told me this years ago Kate and I talk a lot, but Kate's like you are the product. You've probably heard her say that and that's a lot of it. It's like people are coming to you to form that relationship and so when you identify the pain points, it speaks to your niche and when your population understands that you understand them, then they are more likely to connect with you. Look at your stuff, take your courses, want you to speak, listen to your podcast, watch your YouTube channels whatever that is because you get and understand their world. There's another aspect to this, too, which is story. I think that's something that when you're going outside the therapy room, it can be scary as therapists, many times well, as therapists, we're told like be a blank slate, and that was something that when I went outside the therapy room. A blank slate doesn't connect people to you, right? We connect to each other in pain, and so part of it was me sharing my story. That wasn't what was forefront, but it's a part of getting people to understand. So the story and the pain point goes together when you're working outside of the therapy room.

Speaker 1:

So when I think of the people that I want to target, they don't understand why their relationship has changed. They don't understand the impact of like, oh I love my family, but, god, I'm a real turd. I'll just say that it's not normally what I would say, but I'm a real butthead when I come home. Or my spouse everybody loves my spouse at work, but yet they don't. They come home and they kick the dog, right? Or why can't we have the intimacy that we used to have? What's getting in the way? And so if you really dig in and I made a mistake, I'm happy to talk about this I initially thought, oh, they're wanting sex.

Speaker 1:

That's what I initially thought and that's what I led with was I was like, ah, they just want more sex. And then I realized, no, it's not sex, it's connection, it's intimacy. So I had to back up and I had to change the direction and my messaging of what I was doing because I realized that I really didn't know. I had to dig further into my niche and find out what that is. So from there then I'm offering a solution. And so solutions right, you bring them in with understanding their pain points, but then they stay because you give them information and solution to their problems, and that's part of developing that rapport and building that audience that you want to have. I think that's a mistake that a lot of people make when they start to build outside the therapy room is they don't build their audience. They think that they can just drop a course or they think that they can just drop a book. I mean, if part of it is building an audience and getting people to understand who you are, go ahead, kate.

Speaker 2:

No, so we just had a great question. Amber says suggestions on publishing, et cetera, a book. I'm currently writing non-counseling related material and would like to branch in developing workbook type projects, and you and I have given advice before, like don't write the book until you have the audience right. I mean because it's a real balance. Like you have a passion project, you want to go through with it, but then it's like throwing rocks off, you know, in the Grand Canyon, you know. You just like, oh, that's so discouraging when nobody responds to it, right? So talk more about building the audience.

Speaker 1:

So and I love that Sandy mentioned marketing what do you do for marketing? And so I think this goes along with it is that how you have to decide how you want to market? But, as Kate just said, the Google machine right, the Google machine is what people are going to be searching on. I think there is benefit in doing social media, and the problem with social media is that when people are really looking, they're not scrolling through, looking for that specific type of information. If that makes sense. If somebody's having, I'm going to use mine. If somebody's having problems in their law enforcement or first responder marriage, they're not going to be like let me get on Instagram and see what I can find, or let me find a TikTok video on that and find that they're going to get online. They're going to look for a blog, they're going to look for some kind of information, and so this is where, like the Google, you got to feed the Google machine. So, which I have screwed up and I have done well. So what I didn't know I was doing well was when I had my YouTube channel, because my YouTube channel fed into the Google machine. I did not know that at the time, but oh, by the way your podcast does not, and now it can feed into the Google machine. But when I did it initially it was just out there in the atmosphere and so for me it really was getting. Most of my people are either going to be. There's a lot on Facebook, facebook and Instagram, and so I got out there.

Speaker 1:

The second thing I did with marketing was networking. It was really networking with marketing. So what I did was I found the girl who had the biggest blog that spoke to law enforcement wives. So now all my language is couples and partners. That's my language because I want to make sure the LGBT community can find me and that's important for me. But I knew wives are the ones that are the ones that are usually calling for counseling. They're the ones that are looking it up. Normally it's not men that are leading that charge. A lot of times it's the woman. So I looked up the girl who had the biggest law enforcement wives blog and I found her and I reached out to her and I said, hey, would you love to be on my podcast? And oh well, that glare is bad, sorry about that and so I invited her to be on my podcast. We started talking and as we started talking, she was like, wow, this is really good information, and so I used her platform to promote my information. Um, and it's the same thing that I wound up doing within the community. I looked at who in that community was already out there, and what I think is really important in that is and I've developed an amazing network of people in the community not all, actually very few mental health professionals. They're all on different avenues, so, like finances, with law enforcement and first responders, there's all kinds of other platforms that are on there, like support groups, and so building my network, whether that was departments or outside agencies, organizations or blogs, were a part of my marketing, and so networking has to be a part of your marketing. Otherwise, you know you're just in an echo chamber because it's you that's what I think. So that's a big part of the marketing. Okay, suggestions on publishing. So part of that is developing that platform that you have, letting people know that you're out there.

Speaker 1:

To answer Amber's question directly about publishing, I think you and I have done different things when it comes to publishing. So mine is self-published and I had somebody who helped me Actually, he walked me through the process, so he took my hot mess of a manuscript and made it into a, got it, ran it through. What do you call that Editing? Had somebody edit it. We had multiple people proofread it and read it. He actually said you need a conclusion. I'm like what do you mean? That is the conclusion. He's like that is not a conclusion to your book, cindy, and I was like crap.

Speaker 1:

Okay, so I had more to the book and he told me you need to take this out. I'm like what do you mean? He said you want people to read this and when you write a 250 or 300 page book, people aren't going to read it. So I was like, oh man, so we got it down to like it's a little bit less than 200. And people will say they're like this was such an easy read. So I went to the self-publishing route IngramSparks, yeah, so IngramSparks. Just upload it into IngramSparks. They take care of distributing the book. So that's the publishing aspect as far as a book, but like workbooks and depending upon the type and what you're doing there, you can self-publish through Amazon or it could be a digital download too. Either way, I have both and paying for those things, people pay for digital downloads without a problem. So I don't know if that works.

Speaker 2:

There's actually a way to do it. I haven't researched it yet. On Amazon, too, you can do a print on demand with Amazon. But, candice, it's Ingram Sparks, and so you know I've used a book coach. I know Cindy is talking about using a book coach, but, but again, the book, the workbooks, those things come after you know there's a demand for it, right? That's a lot of work to put in and remember, the title of this presentation is making money doing these things, right? So if you're spending time and effort and energy and there's no audience, there's no real demand for it yet. So that's, I think, what you and I've talked about, cindy, that messaging kind of trying to find out, okay, who are my people out there, who's wanting this information? Then I'll produce it.

Speaker 1:

Yes, that's where I think the benefit of doing of blogging is really. Blogging to me just doesn't go out of style. It's putting content on the internet, growing your audience, growing authority, which is really important. And as counselors, we already have authority because we have letters after our names. Kate has more authority than I do because she's a PhD, but Google looks at authority right, and so when you write about a topic over and over again, google starts seeing you as an authority. When people backlink to your information, google sees you as an authority.

Speaker 1:

One of the easiest way, I think, to market, like I said, is use other people's platforms. When I'm talking to other counselors that want to do things commonly, what I'm saying is whose podcast do you want to get on so they don't have to talk about your specific topic? Right? Nobody's out there talking about law enforcement marriage, but there are plenty of people talking about law enforcement situations in some kind, and so many times I reach out to them and say, hey, are you interested in my topic? This is what I talk about. I'd love to be on your podcast. One of my greatest allies out in California. He's like that's.

Speaker 1:

The thing is like people become advocates for your champions. That's the word I want to use. They become champions for your champions that's the word I want to use Like they become champions for your material, and so I have these champions now for my material. So get on other people's podcasts. Have a message that you want to give them. That's why I keep coming back to that messaging over and over and over again.

Speaker 1:

Have a message that you want to get out there and then use other people's platforms at first, launch from there, and I recommend doing a blog so you start to gain authority and then you start to gain an audience and then, after the audience, you have to have some place to take them right, which many I know. You probably talk about funnels. I know how much you love funnels, but we're not going to do that today. You have to have a place to take them, and so that's really like it gets into the journey of what. Where do you want to take those people? What do you want that journey to look like? And we the common person is not able to just drop a book and do really well, so that's, that's a part of that.

Speaker 2:

So what about Katie's question about boundaries?

Speaker 1:

Boundaries and ethics in sharing some of your personal information. I, I'm curious. I would love Katie to chime in there a little bit. So I I know we are taught not to be a blank slate in the therapy room, right? So my conflict was mostly like, if I put myself out there, then potential clients are going to know my story. And that was where I was like oh, I don't know how I feel about that. And what I decided is I can't worry about that because I'm not doing that in the therapy room.

Speaker 1:

So in the therapy room, I'm not like oh, let me tell you my stories and let me tell you all about my husband and I's relationships. Right, that's not what I'm saying. I'm not saying let me tell you about our struggles. And I have information out there where, if people come into the therapy room, they're like oh no, we read your book. I was like, okay, and then we go on therapy. It was an agreement between my husband and I. I had asked him if I could share our stories about that and he said yeah, if people can learn from them and not do the same screw ups, that'd be great. So it's part of our legacy that we leave behind. So I don't really think that there's ethics around that. I'm not sharing my clients' stories. I have done like mock stories of combinations of clients where nothing's identified, but I don't say, hey, I had a client come in and this is what their problem was. So I don't think I don't see that it causes an ethical issue or a boundary issue, because I'm not bringing it into the therapy room.

Speaker 1:

So but it is still in control of what you share into the therapy room, so, but it is still in control of what you share. Yes, yeah, I mean there's things that I don't share Absolutely and it's a part of, it's just become a part of who I am, and I really do remember like putting myself out there and thinking, oh gosh, is this okay for me to share this information Because it is out there. If you want to know anything, if you want to know about my, of course, people think they know me right Because they've they listen to my podcast or they read my book, and so they think they know all about me. And I'm like I don't know you at all. So, yes, that's, that's a part of it.

Speaker 2:

Katie did she answer your question? Katie, did she answer your?

Speaker 1:

question. I also think story is a part of how we connect with people, right? So my origin story that's what I call it my origin story of understanding that my life was going to be different. I have a origin story of the part of like this is the moment that I realized that my life was going to be different being married to him. And then I have another origin story of the moment that I decided I wasn't going to let my marriage fail and I had to figure out how to do this different. But there was there wasn't information out there. It was all like put on your big girl panties and suck it up buttercup, which is not who I am. So that's why I was like no, I think we can all do this differently and we could do better. So that's another part of my origin story, of what launched me into doing what I do now.

Speaker 2:

So expand on that a little bit, and because I want to get to what Candice is asking about bad reviews. Because when you take it outside the therapy room, I mean we all kind of know the moment when we knew we were, we wanted to be a counselor. Right, I want to be a counselor, I want to help other people. Yeah, this is almost like another identity, because you're saying no, I'm going to go out into the public. Like I'm going to, people will get pieces of me. Now you know freely. Like I'm going to, people will get pieces of me. Now, you know freely. Yes, and so there is a fear, I think, of the bad review, but it is. It's a different identity and I hear it in the way you're talking about it. You know, everything you've ever said or done or written is memorialized Like it's right there.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, yeah, I think so. That origin story for me was that moment where I twofold, right, so twofold where I was like, oh hey, maybe I should do what I tell other people to do in the therapy room, which is to get curious about their partner, and so me getting curious about his side of things and what his life was like and what he goes through and why he does what he does. And the secondary aspect of that was it wasn't going to do any good with me just holding onto it and put it in a box, and so me sharing that was part of my story. As far as reviews, I mean, I don't I have a bad Google review or two. Like she sucks. Go to another therapist and specifically named a different therapist. I'm not going to get away from that.

Speaker 1:

But as far as bad Google reviews based upon the content that I put out, I don't, I don't really have that now. Have I gotten skewered on social media before? Oh yeah, think, think of the. I mean, 2020 was a time for that. Let me tell you, I I got all kinds of hate comments from uh, people that don't like law enforcement, to counselors who thought that I was doing the wrong thing, it was bad. It was bad in 2020 over social media, but I never got bad reviews on. I mean, I'm like knock, knock, knock on my book or my podcasts or anything else. But yeah, I mean, just like anything else, right, people can give you a bad Google review on your practice. For me, I just I can't fear those. If people are going to give me a bad review, they're going to give me a bad review. People are going to give me a bad review, they're going to give me a bad review, and I just hope that what I put out there helps enough people that it mitigates the people that find it unhelpful.

Speaker 2:

Well, to circle back, though, to what you said about blogging. I mean you built an audience and had been giving people tastes and bits and appetizers and YouTube videos. I mean they had been consuming your content long before you ever packaged it up into a book, right?

Speaker 2:

So, and I know, with my first book it really was my blogs, like it was basically all my blogs in a book, right? So yeah, they had been out in the public, and that's something. Again going back to marketing and finding your audience pain points and how you're going to connect with them. You're going to connect with them long before you ever put the book out there or the podcast.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, yes, yeah. I was connecting with my audience. For four years I swore I wouldn't write a book. Kate may remember me saying that I'm not writing a book. What do I want to write a book for? She was like all you got to do is package your blogs and I'm like I don't want to do that. I had some mentors other mentors too that were just like you've got to do this. What happens if you don't do this? And I went, oh fine, I'll write it. So and I'll tell you, I was excited to write it initially and then I got halfway in and I was like, oh my gosh, and it was like forcing myself to write for time periods, because I'm one of those I'm like sparkling object, right.

Speaker 1:

But forcing myself to write for those periods of time was hard and getting through it was initially hard. Ellie just said I did it all wrong, but I'm cleaning it up now. Girl, I get you. That's what I keep telling people. There's aspects that I definitely did wrong, but that's why we share, right. That's why we tell everybody else where we did it.

Speaker 2:

So you said a minute ago that the chances of you making it big as an author are kind of slim to none. Yeah, so when you become a paid speaker or let's say you get it you get that speaking gig right. Yes, talk about how that book is goes into that, that messaging or that.

Speaker 1:

So so you taught me that a little bit, though, because I remember you and I would get together and you were like it's the best calling card you'll ever have. I mean, I remember you telling me that when we would talk, um, it it was. So writing the book wasn't hard, because I knew what my messages were and I knew the journey I wanted to take my people on, and I had the backup of doing the podcast for so long in the blogs. So and when I do a podcast, I write a blog to go along with it. So those aren't unique. I'm just making use of the content in two different ways actually three different ways because of YouTube, right, so you drop it in different ways.

Speaker 1:

So I knew what I wanted to write about, I knew the messages that I wanted to get out there and I knew what I wanted to cover was the basic psychology of what's going on and the conditioning that comes with it. So I knew that because that seemed to be the most powerful part of when I would speak, because at that time I would. I had some small speaking gigs um, mostly local, and um, that's the I it's. I actually applied to speak at the police chief conference back in 20, maybe 2018, 2019. That was one of those things of like I'm going to apply for the police chief conference, which is an international conference. By the way, I was shocked that I was able to get in now. Now I can't get in. I don't really understand, but there's just a whole lot more out there now.

Speaker 1:

So I knew what my audience liked. I knew those important messages and the book backs that up, and so now I get it two different ways. I get people. I get it two different ways. Let me say that again, I get interest, receive interest from people in two different ways. One of them is Google. So they Google law enforcement relationships and I'm number one or number two. They find my book. They've networked somehow on LinkedIn by the way, if you don't have a LinkedIn, you need a LinkedIn. They find me on LinkedIn somehow and or know somebody that knows, somebody that knows me.

Speaker 1:

But the book is like evidence that I know what I'm talking about. The reviews of my book is the evidence, the reviews in my book, with the people I strategically picked to be in the book to say like, hey, this is quality stuff, we're strategic, they were leaders in the industry and so that's been really helpful and so that, from there, that gives me the street cred, if you will, to be able to sell my key, my speaking um. People ask me to come speak, um, and then, like I said, I have a train the trainer program. That's, that's my big pumpkin is my train the trainer program. And so, um, if I sold a hundred of those a year, I basically could retire and just do that.

Speaker 2:

So I'm going to say it back to you. I think so. No, I'm not. I'm going to just consolidate. I think what you're saying is you have to have some place for these people who are attracted to your message to go. Because I'm looking at Sandy. Sandy says I've never written a blog.

Speaker 2:

I was reading her too, yeah, and so imagine that you find Cindy on Google. You're Googling law enforcement, divorce, and Cindy pops up. Well, you'll get her blog and in the blog it's going to have a link to her podcast or her YouTube channel. And you go to the podcast and the YouTube channel it's going to have a way that you can book her as a speaker. Plus, there's going to be a link to purchase her book, right? So going outside the therapy room isn't just, you know, like the tiara syndrome, like if I, just you know, if I build it, they will come. It's everything is connected and links to other things. And I'm going to talk real quick because you're going to get a certificate on ethics for this. The ethics behind selling your stuff is are you can't make it a condition of a cure. You can't make it a condition, like you know, if you don't buy my book, I'm not going to be your therapist. Or if you don't buy my book, you're not going to get better.

Speaker 2:

You know that type of thing and if you sell the stuff on your website, you just need to clearly state the connection and that it's for profit. You know you're not giving these things away, that you're selling it. You will earn whatever. You know three. I think I earned $3 on the sale of my book. I don't know how much you earn, probably more but $4 and 60 cents.

Speaker 1:

Okay, there we go.

Speaker 2:

So you know this isn't a big ticket item, but those are the ethics right. You need to make it clear to your current and future clients just exactly what that serves in their process. If they decide to come see you because I know several of you, or a few of you you write a book or you do a presentation and you want them to book a session with you, which is wonderful. You would just need to make it clear that the connection between your products and your counseling services so Sandy said that she's never written a blog and I understand.

Speaker 1:

I mentioned this right, the intimidation aspect. So, being intimidated, I get it because I thought, oh my gosh, I'm going to put this out there and everybody's going to jump on me and everybody's going to read it. The fact is is that it like I, I don't you publish a blog and it is a long while before people will get to notice that. So the resources that can help you to write a blog I think that is probably a whole different webinar, and just like Joyce's question about LinkedIn.

Speaker 2:

I'd love it if you did a presentation on just how to use LinkedIn.

Speaker 1:

Oh yeah, I'd love it. So the reason because is that there's a strategy behind using blogging, because you're trying to feed the Google machine as well. So part of it is looking and figuring out what are people searching on, and that's something that probably Kate can talk about at another time because she's good at that, really good at that. But part of it, too, is so the blogs that work nowadays, just so you know, are not blogs of like. At one point in time it was oh, here's what I did with my day like a journal blog. Really, it's more content. They're looking I don't know what the word. Do you remember what the word count is At this point that Google wants? Is it like five to 700 words?

Speaker 2:

or less than 900 words, something like that.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, I think it's yeah, so like 700 words of an article, um, and going that way. You know the this is random. There are also, um, um, like journal journalism, journalistic people what do you call those people, Journalists? There you go Journalists, that's the word that are looking for people to comment. So if you're wanting to be seen as an expert and your topic is something that wants a lot of comments or maybe is a little bit hot, that might be a way too. My topic is not very hot topic During 2020, it was a little bit of a hot topic and I was interviewed by NPR.

Speaker 1:

I was in two different national newspapers because they were looking for somebody on my topic, like how is this impacting law enforcement and relationships? And so I was. I was keyed up on that. So that's another way that you can build your, your street cred. I can't remember the word that I want to use there. My brain's going flat Street creds. That's good. Let me talk. If y'all don't, I'm going to jump down.

Speaker 1:

I put this in here because I didn't want to forget. I think it's important that you research your competition for a couple different reasons. You want to find out what's already out there. So that's part of what I was looking at was I thought first of all, I'm that person of like oh, this is a really good idea, this is going to be awesome, I'm going to go do this idea. And then I start second guessing myself and I go this is dumb, Other people have already written about that, why would somebody want to listen to me? And then I can go research and prove myself that I shouldn't like walk, walk into something, because I actually thought I should start a blog back in 2015. And and people like weren't into blogging back then. I mean, I started my YouTube channel with forgetting Freud in like 2014. It's kind of crazy. So you know, I had these ideas, but I was. I'd always talk myself out of it. So be careful in looking at the competition.

Speaker 1:

One. I think it's important to look at the competition because you already know what's out there, and so you start to find out is there a market for this? So that's something. The other thing that I saw in my competition was I saw, huh, that's interesting. They don't have the same angle I do with this, so that was good information for me too.

Speaker 1:

The other thing that can be dangerous with competition is that you can talk to yourself out of doing it because you think, oh, everybody's already doing it. You have your own unique view. You look at it through a different lens. You have your journey, you have your story. You have your unique way of looking at this topic. So, even if there are other people out there doing it, I recommend dipping your toe in the pool, because the way you're going to see it is not going to be the way other people see it.

Speaker 1:

So just because I see it through my lens doesn't mean there's not room for other people to talk about the psychology behind law enforcement relationships, because they see it through their different lens. So Rebecca Lynn, who's the Proud Police Wife blog girl like she sees her view, but she has kids. I don't have kids. Her husband works undercover. Mine doesn't Like there's different views in what we each go through, and so everybody speaks to their own audience. So I think looking at competition is important, but also understanding that you bring something unique to the table, which is the way you see it. You put puzzle pieces together in your unique way and people are going to see that. So that's important. Don't dissuade yourself just because you think other people are talking about the same thing. Do you know how many people have talked about self-worth? Do you know how many self-help books there are on finances? It's just your way of doing it, so don't talk yourself out of it.

Speaker 2:

Awesome. Michelle wants to talk about the Google machine. Will they automatically pick up a blog off your website or do you need to do something different for SEO?

Speaker 1:

So Google will? Okay, I'm going to make this, I'm going to do a simple answer for this. So do you need to do something special for the Google machine? Not necessarily. And if you want, when you're looking at search engine optimization, what that's looking at is what are people searching on? So in my world, there's not a lot of people out there searching for how does law enforcement affect my marriage? Right? What they search for is law enforcement divorce, like I said, or law enforcement PTSD, like that's what they're searching on. A lot of people don't understand or recognize that the training in law enforcement impacts the way their officer connects and there's just a whole psychology behind it. But most people are not looking for that. So I wind up ranking having the search engine optimization or the keywords in these other areas.

Speaker 1:

Now, if you're on a bigger topic, then let's say food blogs. That's an easy one, right? So if you're going to specifically want to rank for a food blog, then you've got to get more specific about what you're talking about, because there's so much competition. But that doesn't mean you can't. So if you were here's an example If you were to just try to specialize in anxiety, that is very broad, right? So if you look at anxiety, that's really big. So what can you narrow that down to? Maybe you can narrow it down to anxiety, adhd-related anxiety. Maybe you can narrow that down to single women and ADHD anxiety with dating, and then maybe you further narrow it down to dating online, adhd anxiety, right? So you kind of narrow, narrow, narrow, narrow. So your competition is an anxiety. You wind up being more specialized. So when you get into the science of blogging, it can be as complex as you want it to be. I'll say that, and I would say there's no harm in just putting a blog out there and hitting publish, because you can always go back and fix it if you really want to. But no, if you publish it on your site, google's going to find it at some point in time. So yeah, the Google machine will find it, it'll find you.

Speaker 1:

How do you effectively utilize LinkedIn? So LinkedIn is different than Instagram or Facebook. So LinkedIn is a lot about sharing information. I'm sorry I look like a ghost. The sun is coming down and like right at the wrong space in my window here. So LinkedIn is very much about sharing information. It's really about celebrating other people's successes. It's about putting information and content that other people can use business-wise and or more I don't know what else to say like more information. It's less social is the best way I can describe it.

Speaker 2:

Would you say it's more business to business. I mean you wouldn't be using LinkedIn necessarily to find clients, right yeah?

Speaker 1:

Yeah, yeah. And if I'm looking at a speaking client, I am looking for clients, right? If I'm looking for people who would be interested in buying my book, I am looking for clients. So what I do is I put information out there that is informative. I do is I put information out there that is informative, research-based, little tidbits that people can pass along. I celebrate other people and other people's successes. I definitely put my podcasts out there. I will put when I'm speaking for sure. Put when I'm speaking, for sure I will go and share other people's information.

Speaker 1:

And you know, just like I don't know if people do this on social, on Instagram or so, but if people comment, specifically comment, or give me some kind of a yay on my LinkedIn, I go look at their profile because I want to see what we have in common and then maybe even connect with them, right. So then I'm going to send them a message and say like hey, thanks so much for liking this. I saw that we had this in common. Now, I hate the LinkedIn spamming. I hate that Like, hey, let me sell you a life insurance because you'll get that Right.

Speaker 1:

So I think LinkedIn can be very effective because people will start seeing you comment or other people comment on the same post, and I'm like, hey, I saw that you're commenting on the same person I do. How do you know them? I found a lot of podcast guests. That way I feel like LinkedIn also, like if I'm I have I'm working pretty pretty hand in hand right now with the US Border Patrol, so when I'm sharing what I'm doing for them, many times are like oh, wow, and so people are interested in that, and so then they're like what are you doing for them? Or they'll reach out to me in my messaging. So it's, you know, I find it more effective for my audience than I do for Instagram or Facebook.

Speaker 2:

I love that All right. We've got time for at least one more good question for Cindy. Nothing is silly, nothing is a bad question. What do you want to know?

Speaker 1:

I would like to comment on one thing because nobody's writing this, but I know this has to be a curiosity question which is pricing. And I think that that is a great. I see some nod Yep, yep, we didn't want to ask, but yes, so pricing. So when I am speaking, it depends upon where. It used to depend upon where I was speaking and I used to say like, oh, you know, I got to go here and fly and all these other things, and I would not charge for the time I had to prep and I would not charge for the time I had to recover, because I contract with them, I contract with a national nonprofit right now, and they're like yes, you get a day of prep, you get a day to speak and a day to travel. And I'm like, well, good, gosh, right, we all need to do that. So that's really what I factor in. And what I factor in is how much would I be making in the therapy room? This is where I started. It's like how much would I be making in the therapy room for those three days? And I will tell you, that was scary when I started to do that, because I'm like, oh, that looks like a big number to me who's going to pay me for that? And there are people now that they'll say I had somebody from Ohio reach out to me and they're like, well, our budget is $700. I'm like including travel. They're like, yes, and I'm like I can't get a plane and a hotel room for that. So I'm sorry, I'm not your person.

Speaker 1:

So part of it, I think, is well, I know, I started speaking locally. I videoed things. So then I developed a speaker reel so people could see me speaking, because that way they get to know who you are Right. So when you're thinking about the medium you want to use whether it's a podcast or blog or YouTube part of it is people seeing you and hearing you. So I think that's my. My podcast was my best marketing because people hear me speak.

Speaker 1:

And then from there I started doing things locally and then I started getting more brave and asking for really my value. That's where I started with what do, what can I, what do I make in the therapy room for three days? Because if I'm speaking on one, I need one day of prep, one day of travel, kind of. Basically, that's how I package that together, but I do discount it. So, like I, I'm working with a local PD and I'm just discounting that because it's a one hour drive and I'm speaking for two hours and I'm coming back home, so I'm not charging at my full rate hours and I'm coming back home, so I'm not charging at my full rate and that goes up like it's going to be going up as I go along because and that's outside of travel Travel is extra right, so I add that on too.

Speaker 1:

But I want to be accessible for my audience and I want to honor my time, and so finding that sweet spot is really important to honor your time and recovery as well as being accessible to your audience. I'm not going to charge $10,000.

Speaker 2:

But, cindy, isn't that why you have a book and a podcast too? I mean they can access you, right, they can buy your book, they can listen for free on Apple Podcasts. I mean you're accessible. You're charging what you're worth if they want your face in the same building as them.

Speaker 1:

Yes, so let me tell you a little bit about what I mean there.

Speaker 1:

So, for example, really quickly, because I know it's six o'clock so, for example, I am speaking for the Michigan State Troopers Association and so I'm going up to Michigan Fabulous venue, by the way that they're paying for, love it and what that's going to do is that is going to get me in front of a ton of other people that could potentially have me coming in. So to me, I would rather that I'm charging them my normal rate and I'm going up there and doing that which is accessible and that could give me more gigs as it goes along, and that could give me more gigs as it goes along. So I'm comfortable with my rate. I know there are people in my industry that charge 10 and $15,000 to come and speak and I just don't want to. I mean, I'll tell y'all what I charge. So I charge $4,500 to go in and speak and that's then they have to pay travel on top of that. So that's what mine is right now and that'll probably be going up in the next year for sure.

Speaker 2:

Awesome. So, cindy, you do consultations, maybe even a little bit of coaching, a little bit, yes, I do. How can people contact you.

Speaker 1:

It's cindydoylecom, which is C-Y-N-D-I doylecom, and you can find me there. I also have a free guide that kind of covers that doesn't kind of cover. It covers some of the points that I made today about the clarity, the story, the research. I didn't really get into that, but then also mindset networking and then Kate's favorite topic, which is strategic planning.

Speaker 2:

How can they get the guide? Do you have a? Is there a link I can grab?

Speaker 1:

Yeah, so there's a link in my well. I yeah, it's just go to my website. It's the very top page there, okay.

Speaker 2:

I'm grabbing that and I'm dropping that in the chat as well. The six strategic elements yes, okay, yeah, cindy knows her stuff and I highly recommend you reach out to her and ask her any questions you didn't feel comfortable asking here. I mean, I know, you know it's talking about money, talking about new ventures, talking about passion projects, all of these things. And Cindy and I, we will probably talk you out of writing a book before we'll ever talk you into writing a book just because we want you to do the groundwork so you're successful. There's no sense in getting discouraged by this process. Getting outside the therapy room is wonderful, I mean it's, it's, it's amazing for what it can do for your business. So, cindy, thank you so much. And yeah, everybody, just feel free to reach out and I'm Kate Walker, this is Texas counselors creating bad-ass businesses and give us about two weeks and we will get you your certificate. Have a wonderful evening and thanks again for joining. See you guys.

Speaker 1:

Bye.