78 Navigating the Path to Counseling Licensure: 5 Insights from Dr. Tara Fox

Embark on a voyage through the transformative landscape of counseling with Dr. Tara Fox from Midwestern State University as our guide, uncovering the often-intricate journey from graduate student to Licensed Professional Counselor associate. In the heart of Texas, where the path to licensure is as sprawling as the state itself, Dr. Fox bestows upon us her knowledge, from the art of tracking clinical hours to finding that perfect supervisor who will champion your growth and align with your counseling ethos. Her astute advice doesn't stop there; for online students, she lays out a blueprint for building professional relationships that are both meaningful and enduring.

As you navigate the waters of LPC supervision and licensing, it's paramount to find a supervisor who not only aligns with your professional aspirations but also provides a secure anchor for your developing practice. Dr. Fox shines a light on the questions you should be asking to gauge compatibility and supervision styles and underscores the importance of a strong, genuine connection. This chapter doesn't shy away from the realities of ethical practice and staying abreast of the ever-evolving professional regulations, ensuring you're well-equipped to apply for that coveted LPC Associate license in Texas with confidence.

Lastly, we address the nitty-gritty of practical hours and the sometimes daunting transition from student to professional. For those wondering if school counseling practicum hours fit the bill for LPC requirements, we've got answers. And for those pondering the chicken-or-the-egg dilemma of finding a supervisor versus landing a job, we clarify the steps to ensure a seamless transition. Dr. Fox also arms you with a realistic timeline for acquiring your LPC associate license, sparing you from common pitfalls that could delay your start in this rewarding profession. Tune in for an episode rich with insights, poised to fortify your journey toward making a profound impact in the lives of others through counseling.

Get your step by step guide to private practice. Because you are too important to lose to not knowing the rules, going broke, burning out, and giving up. #counselorsdontquit.

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:01

There we go, all right. So, dr Tara Fox, please come on here and tell us about you and what you do with Midwestern State University and what you're going to tell us tonight.

Speaker 2: 0:12

Absolutely.

Speaker 2: 0:13

So I do wear a lot of hats, and that is nothing new to me, as I come from rural mental health, and anyone who works in rural areas knows that you have to be a Swiss army knife, you have to be a jack of all trades master of none in rural areas to meet needs, and so I feel like I'm very familiar in that Our program is 100% online and we are in Wichita Falls, texas that's where our concrete campus is and so I do work a lot with our clinical students, so our students in practicum internship one and internship two, and also I'm an LPC supervisor, so I work a lot with former students or people for individuals who have graduated and are now an LPC associate, and they are getting their hours.

Speaker 2: 1:10

So I am excited to do this again with you. I'm so glad we hit record this time and, yeah, we can go ahead and get to it. I'll go ahead and share my screen and if, at any time, anyone has any questions, please put them in the chat. Dr K knows she can just interrupt me and I will be happy to answer any questions as we go.

Speaker 1: 1:33

Awesome. And while you're doing that, let me just say real quickly you're going to see a Google Drive link in the chat. That is how we get you your certificate. So if you do need a CE for this presentation, you must fill out the Google form and if your name and your Zoom handle and your email are all different, expect delays. But be patient with us. We will get you the certificate. So watch for that Zoom link and when you see it, click it so that it's saved, Because when the meeting closes that link will go away. All right, Dr Tara. All right, Dr.

Speaker 2: 2:06

Tara, all right. So of course, we are going to be talking about what do we do to bridge the gap? How do we transition from being a grad student to being an LPC associate? So this is specifically for Texas. But, being an online program, I do have many students who are out of state, and so they will be looking at the alternate test, and so I do mention some stuff and have resources for that as well. But in Texas, we are typically an NCE state, and so that's something to consider as well. All right, so what can I do while I'm still a graduate student? So this is where we're starting.

Speaker 2: 2:46

Let's say, you're not even close to your clinicals. You're in your first year and you're just in coursework. What can you do, depending on what your program is? If it's in person, if it's hybrid, if it's online, that's going to change how you build community, how you create connections and how you find mentors. So that's easier to do in a face-to-face program, because you're seeing people's faces, you are putting yourself out there, you are getting into a out of your comfort zone, in an environment that you're not just going to hermit and keep to yourself. You're going to have to speak up and you're going to have to interact. Hybrid programs a little less than that, so maybe you're not doing that as often and then online programs really different. You have to be creative and you have to be very intentional about building community, creating connections between your professors and your fellow students and finding those mentors. Professors can be really good mentors for you and we'll talk more about this when we start talking about what's a supervisor and you know who's a good fit for you but finding people who are going to encourage you and who you trust to speak into your life and to guide and direct you. So mentors are super important. I have mentors. I would say I probably am also a mentor, but it goes both ways. We have to be able to seek that from someone else and we have to know how to give it as well, and that's another reason why it's so important to have good site supervisors, good LPC supervisors, because they are feeding into you and we are so heavily influenced by who we allow to speak into our life and who we allow to supervise us. So build community, create connections and find mentors and, depending on how your program is, you're going to have to get creative in that Get to know your professors and classmates to the best you can.

Speaker 2: 4:49

This is a big one. Make sure that you have a detailed time log during your clinical semesters. So you need to know your total direct for practicum, total direct for internship one, total direct for internship two, total direct for internship one, total direct for internship two, total indirect for practicum, total indirect for internship one and total indirect for internship two. And each site needs you need to know the numbers for that. So when you go to transition to LPC associate, each site is actually going to need their own form filled out, need their own form filled out. So if you were at two different sites, you're going to need the total total for one site and total total for the other site. So you're going to need to keep track of those numbers so that you can do that total total form because you're going to need to know what your numbers are. So keep detailed logs. So our program uses TK-20, but after you graduate you don't have access to those, so you have to make sure you download your logs. I always encourage my students and have them do a paper log so that it's easier for them to keep up. So make sure you're tracking your hours very closely.

Speaker 2: 5:57

Another one is you can be studying for the NCE already or again in other programs or other states. That would be the National Clinical Mental Health Counselor Exam, the NCMHCE that's a mouthful or the one that's more traditional, the National Counselor Examination, the NCE, so you can be studying. That is another thing you can do. And then, towards the end of your clinical semesters, you need to be looking for an LPC supervisor and thinking about who your mentors are. Ask around who people would suggest, but you really want to find someone who's going to be a good fit for you and we'll talk more about that.

Speaker 2: 6:38

So, resources to study and again, I have the PDF that I have sent Kate and she can email that out and because I want you all to have the links for this. But so we have study materials for the NCE and the NCMHCE and that's going to be the studycom ones, the Encyclopedia of Counseling, mementrix and the handbooks from NBCC, and so those are some really good places to start for resources to study. I've heard a lot of really good things about the Momentrix, the last cohort that I took all the way through. That was their favorite one, and so that one, I would say, really look into. And, of course the Purple Book is has its fondly known, as I don't know if you can see me in the camera, but I have the purple book literally right in front of me, and so that's the purple book, which is the Encyclopedia of Counseling, fourth edition. So those are just some good links and resources to start your studying.

Speaker 2: 7:48

Links and resources to start your studying how to find an LPC supervisor. So Dr Walker here has a wonderful website and a wonderful list of Texas LPC supervisor directory, so that is a link for you as well. But BHEC also has a full list of all the LPC supervisors in the state of Texas, and so if you really want to find someone local in your area, that's a really great way to do it. But remember, you don't have to be in the same city as your supervisor. So it can be done via Zoom, via telehealth, just like counseling can be done, and so you can use one of the above links and you can also ask word of mouth, talk to the counseling community in your area, speak with your graduate faculty. I guarantee you your graduate faculty knows who the LPC supervisors are in your area, and so they. That can be a wonderful resource for you as well, we, for example in my program I think the a big chunk of people who teach in our program we're all LPC supervisors and that's by design, because when we teach clinical courses we want there to be a supervision component to that and understanding the dynamics of supervision and what goes into that and how to mentor.

Speaker 2: 9:02

So how to approach an LPC supervisor to inquire about supervision, well, I wouldn't suggest just, you know, cold calling and asking what's up. You know, be very professional in how you're reaching out to these LPC supervisors Maybe a professionally worded email. Introduce yourself, give some feedback about your clinical experience thus far, and you always want to ask if they have space for taking on additional LPC associates, because assuming that they do is not always the best option and every LPC supervisor has a number in their brain of what's manageable for them. For me, any five is about as many as I can handle at once, and that's with also teaching full time. And so every LPC supervisor has a number in their head of how many LPC associates they feel comfortable taking on while being able to provide quality supervision to each associate.

Speaker 2: 10:10

So if the LPC supervisor has space available to take on an additional associate, I would recommend setting up some sort of interview, whether that's phone, zoom or in person, I would say, making sure you can see their face. So maybe not so much phone, unless that's your only option, but getting a face-to-face, because as much as they're going to be interviewing you, you need to be interviewing them as well. You need to make sure that it's a mutual fit, and you don't want a supervisor who's just gonna sign off on your hours. You want someone who's going to mentor you, and so it needs to be mutual. This is a service you're going to be paying for, unless it's through your job. Maybe you have an LPC supervisor where you're working or within your organization, and that's wonderful, but that is not the case for most people, and so this is a service that you're going to be paying for, and because you're going to be paying for it and it's going to be someone who's going to have a really big impact on your life, you want to make sure you choose really well, so you want to make sure it's a good fit for both you and the supervisor.

Speaker 2: 11:23

So have questions that you can ask the supervisor regarding their supervision style, how they maybe approach supervision. Think about what you're looking for. Create questions about what you have identified as being important to you. By this point, I hope you would know what kind of feedback you like to get and how you like to get it. So, whether that's written, whether that's verbal, do you prefer sandwich feedback, so where it's like a positive and a challenge and a positive. So, finding a way to figure out and communicate how you prefer getting feedback, because something that I've learned teaching in an online program is that pretty much the biggest thing that impacts the ability of students taking feedback from professors is the connection and the relationship, and when there's not a connection or a relationship there, it's really hard to take feedback and see it as constructive and know that this person has their best intention for you. So you want to make sure, when you're interviewing this person, that you feel like this is going to be someone who you can trust to give you feedback.

Speaker 2: 12:49

So interview questions that you might receive about your theoretical framework deficits from your graduate program, and I don't mean that in a bad way, but we all feel after we have completed school that maybe we wish we had dug into certain areas more, and I would really think about where do you feel like you need additional guidance and in what areas? Because your LPC supervisor. Yes, they're not there to educate you like your professors were, but they can fill in some gaps. And maybe that's just my educator brain, but I also psychoeducate a lot within my supervision and teach a lot of how to do things. And I'm more of a teach to fish. I'm not going to give you the fish, but I'm going to teach you to fish. And so think about the deficits of your graduate program where you feel like you need a little bit more information. Again, the receiving feedback you may be asked if you have a mentor already and maybe explore that. Think about that a little bit.

Speaker 2: 13:47

Case conceptualizations I know of some LPC supervisors who will actually provide a case and they want to see the prospective LPC associate conceptualize the case, and so that could happen. And then talking about ethics, because it is a big liability to take on LPC associates as an LPC supervisor and that is not something that we take on lightly. If an LPC supervisor is willing to bring you on, they are under the assumption that you are not going to cause them more problems. And so making sure that you're ethically grounded and that you are rooted in your ethics codes and you understand what your license codes are, or at least know where to find them. I always like to brush up on that as well, like to brush up on that as well, and so that's important as well. So I would definitely make sure you are aware and able to work within the ACA Code of Ethics, but also the LPC Code of Texas, if you're in Texas. And then your clinical background what sites were you at? What populations have you worked with? What theories have you used? Where do you want to be? What sites are you wanting to look into? Are you wanting to specialize more in a population? Are you just trying to get a lot of experience so you can get your hours, or are you wanting to move into more of a focused area? So understanding where you've been and where you want to go clinically is another thing that they might want to talk about in those interviews Applying to take the NCE or NCMHCE.

Speaker 2: 15:35

So there are lots of links there and they do have accommodations as well. So if you are needing accommodations that can take a long time to set up, several, several weeks. So if you are needing accommodations that can take a long time to set up, several, several weeks. So if you are wanting accommodations for the NCE. You need to set that up way ahead of time. And scheduling the NCE or the NCMHCE is not a hey, I'm going to send them an email and I'm going to be able to schedule this tomorrow. Typically, you, you know, fill out the form and then they get back to you about scheduling, and that can be even a couple weeks. So this is something that you really need to think about.

Speaker 2: 16:14

For KCREP programs, you are able to test within your final semester, and so that's something to keep in mind as well. And then I tell students, especially students in our program, that if you're to two weeks after you finished that last semester, so if you're not in a KCREP program, you unfortunately cannot take it early. You will have to wait until after you finished your program. So those are some links for you. And, again, the accommodations can be really helpful, but it does take time to set up Applying for LPC Associate in Texas.

Speaker 2: 17:11

So once you locate an LPC supervisor because you will have to locate one first, because they have to fill out paperwork with you when you submit it, so you have to pass the NCE you will then both fill out the paperwork and then you apply for your LPC associate license and there are forms I encourage you to, if you're going to be licensed in Texas, to sign up for email updates there. And, and then I also there's the system so you can create an account, um, and then we have um, the, the NBPD that has to be done when, when LP associates do, and then also um fingerprints now, and so those are all new things. Whenever I went through I did not have to do fingerprints, so I had to do fingerprints a few years ago when they started that. So that's also something that has to be done as well. So make sure you have that LPC supervisor found before you start working on that.

Speaker 2: 18:18

All right, next one, so your liability insurance. One so your liability insurance. So if you are a grad student, most likely you have some sort of liability insurance, whether it's blanket coverage from your university or your own personal liability insurance. You will want to renew that and you will have to transition because there's student liability insurance, so you will have to transition that into licensed liability insurance. And I know that some agencies have blanket liability insurances and kind of like an umbrella policy. Personally, I'm a little too paranoid or anxious, whatever you want to call it, to rely on something like that. So I always suggest that my LPC associates have their own, with their own name on there, and so I have three options there Bereksi, hipso and then CPH. And so I personally have CPH, but I know a lot of people who have the others. So that is a decision you can make after you do some research. But I always feel more comfortable knowing that I have my name on my own liability policy. And so the ins and outs of supervision.

Speaker 2: 19:41

So once you have been approved by the state with your LPC associate license, you will begin gaining your 3,000 hours under the supervision of your LPC supervisor. You must meet with your LPC supervisor four hours a month. 50% of this supervision can be group. Individual supervision can be one-on-one or one-on-two, which is triadic. So unless you are at a job that provides LPC supervision for you, you will have to pay for your LPC supervision every month. Prices vary based off of your location, but you can plan on anywhere from $250 to $500 a month, and I would say that $250, probably not going to find that very often Every once in a while you will, but most likely you see more nowadays $300 to $400 a month for that supervision.

Speaker 2: 20:32

Lpc supervision can take place in person, via telehealth or a mixture of both. And remember that the state does not approve sites anymore, but your LPC supervisor does, and so when you submit your paperwork, you do not have to identify the site that you're going to be at, like we used to have to do. But you do need to have those conversations with your LPC supervisor, and if you're planning on starting your own private practice as an LPC associate, you need to bring that up when you're interviewing with LPC supervisors. Because, yes, that is, lpc associates are able to start their own private practice now, but that doesn't mean that every LPC supervisor is wanting to supervise someone doing that, and so that needs to be something that you're very upfront with and make sure that you have someone comfortable with that number one, but number two, that that will be helpful in that process. So I probably would recommend, if you're going to do that, to find someone who's already in private practice and who knows what they're doing, so that they can toodle you and give you feedback and really help you in that area.

Speaker 2: 21:48

And again, you can always change and decide you want to transition, but that needs to be a conversation with your LPC supervisor because they may decide that well, maybe you might need to have additional supervision from an LPC supervisor who is in private practice or has more experience with that, because you can have more than one LPC supervisor. You just have to have four hours a month. So, and then there's my contact information. So, if you want to take a picture of that again, the PDF is going to be dropped to you all. But please feel free to reach out with any questions. Whether you're a student, an LPC associate or an LPC supervisor, please don't hesitate to reach out to me. I'm happy to answer any questions, even after tonight. But yeah, I'm happy to answer your questions now as well.

Speaker 1: 22:47

And if they don't have questions, I will interview you with my questions.

Speaker 2: 22:52

Wonderful.

Speaker 1: 22:54

So, yeah, you could pop it into the chat or you can unmute. We have a pretty small group tonight, so I think it would be fine. If you felt brave and you wanted to unmute and ask questions, go right ahead. Otherwise, all right. Dr Fox, I'm going to ask you some questions then. All right. I'm ready okay, so what if your supervisor wants to hire you?

Speaker 2: 23:28

well, you know, supervisors can absolutely hire you and that typically is going to look like a 1099 contract and so, absolutely, if they want to hire you, they can. And if they have a private practice and they want to do full benefits, they absolutely can do that as well. In fact, bravo, if we want to have full on salary and benefits, and that would be amazing. So, yeah, if your LPC supervisor wants to hire you, absolutely they can and you can work underneath your LPC supervisor. That's wonderful. It's just that's not always going to happen.

Speaker 1: 24:06

Right. So it's a good thing, it's a great opportunity, it's absolutely allowed, and some of the things that we're seeing right now is just to be careful how you're classified. So if you have any doubt at all like MI 1099, miw2, and you are not sure that the person hiring you knows that either, it's really important that you get some outside information. And so a lot of you guys are in the Texas Counseling Association right now. Yay you, you did that because your professors encouraged you to do it. And then a lot of times when you graduate, you're like I don't think I want to be in this anymore.

Speaker 1: 24:47

Well, you get free legal phone calls, legal advice. There's an attorney on call. So that would be something to really think about as you're joining or getting rid of these memberships. Pca is a wonderful investment because you can still access their legal care, because that is something kind of that can cause a real rupture in the relationship with your supervisor if you find out you've been misclassified and somebody owes somebody money or monies haven't been taken out, or you're like oh my gosh, I owe taxes at the end of the year. You never told me so, but it's absolutely allowed, it's absolutely a wonderful opportunity. Okay, so you said something. Oh, let's see, we got a question. What are the total hours required for internship?

Speaker 2: 25:40

for internship um. So for clinicals, um, it's seven. Well, for our program it's 700, um, but I believe it's um. Let me see that the bhec. Let me pull it up here.

Speaker 1: 25:55

And just to be clear, this person I don't want to say your name because you DM'd me but are you talking about internship, pre-grad or internship, because we used to call it internship, post-grad as well, but it's not called that anymore those are your direct hours toward licensure, so can you clarify that pre-grad or post-grad?

Speaker 2: 26:26

Okay, tell us both, because she's not, I will. Pre-grad Okay, so pre-grad. So K-CREP programs are 700 hours minimum, and so what that typically looks like is 400 or 40 direct hours for practicum, 60 indirect hours for practicum, and then for internship one, 120 direct, 180 indirect and internship two, 120 direct and 180 indirect, and that is 700. So for KCREP programs, that's the minimum, but BHEC requirements for hours are at least 300 clock hours, which 100 hours must be direct. So it's a little bit different, and so that is the ruling that was in. Let me see, I believe it was 2020 is when they came for that, and so if you went through a master's program before August 1st of 2017, you could have a 48 hour program, but if it was August 1st 2017, after that you were required to have a 60 in order to be licensed in Texas. And so, yes, k-crep are 700 minimum, and then for Texas licensure, it's 300 clock hours, with at least 100 of those hours being direct, and that was effective November 19th 2020.

Speaker 1: 27:57

Okay, we've got another question and Tatum wants to know. So if you work for them as a 1099, do you still pay for a monthly supervision fee? So before I answer that they're again not sure if 1099 or W-2 would be the correct classification. So I'm just going to kind of say if you're working for a supervisor, do you still pay for a monthly supervision fee? And the answer is it's up to them. You know that's that's up to you know how they want to run their business.

Speaker 2: 28:27

Yeah, and that's up to them. May deem it more makes sense to where it's built in if you're working for them, or they may see that it's actually better if they go ahead and still charge you for that as well, and so it's up to your LPC supervisor. I've seen it done both ways.

Speaker 1: 28:48

Okay, can you see the chat? We've got a question from Kirsten. She says I have my school counseling degree and I'm currently in a bridge program for LPC. I did a 200-hour practicum for school counseling. Does that go toward LPC practicum?

Speaker 2: 29:02

regret, so, yes, that would go through. Go for it as long as it was still the hours that you counted as direct would be counted as direct for the state of Texas, and so if that is true then yes, that 200-hour practicum would count into that. But it just would depend on how that program identified a direct hour and to make sure that it matches the LPC requirements.

Speaker 1: 29:39

Um follow up before I get to Bailey. Kirsten says what if they were not marked, direct or indirect?

Speaker 2: 29:47

Oh, that makes it so much harder. Um, another thing is cause you have to prove it. So do you have logs, do you have things that show your hours? Because if you can't prove to the state that you doing kind of that, coming back to get supplemental courses that they needed and we would have them come back and do internship two because they couldn't prove any of their hours, and so again it's 300 clock hours, which would be a combination of direct and indirect, which is exactly what an internship one or two courses, and then 100 direct, which is 120 for an internship course. So I would say I don't know that they are going to go for it if you can't prove your hours, if you don't have logs to back it up, which is another reason why I tell students to really keep a good log. It's because you just never know.

Speaker 1: 31:00

Okay Bailey wants to know after graduating, do you recommend obtaining a counseling job first before starting a supervision agreement with an LPCS? That way your supervisor knows where you are seeing clients at. Or do you need to have your LPCS first and then apply for counseling jobs?

Speaker 2: 31:20

That's a great question. So you actually have to have your LPC supervisor first, because you will not be licensed. And so, unless the job that you are taking is, for some, is an unlicensed position, they're not going to hire you without having an LPC supervisor, because you need your LPC supervisor to apply for the LPC associate license and so most likely they're not going to enter into conversation about hiring you unless you have already submitted your paperwork and you're just waiting for the state to get your license back with you, and then oftentimes places won't even do that. They want your number in hand, your license number in hand. So definitely have your LPC supervisor first, because you're going to need to submit that paperwork to the state.

Speaker 1: 32:13

I'm going to do a follow-up question there because you and I to need to submit that paperwork to the state. I'm going to do a follow-up question there because you and I have been to enough conferences and we've heard LPC board members talk to us and this idea of maybe a practice owner saying, hey, I'm going to call you a coach until your LPC associate license is formalized so you can still continue care with that person you were seeing in your practicum. What do you think about that, Dr Fox?

Speaker 2: 32:38

Oh, that gives me the ick. Yeah, I don't like that at all. I would suggest that if a site is talking to you about that, the way my brain works is almost like pulling a thread. If they're talking about that, which is already questionable ethic wise, what else is questionable and what else will you find as you continue to pull that thread? So to me, I really don't like that. I think it's really messy. It opens up a lot of issues and it can be really confusing to clients. Opens up a lot of issues and it can be really confusing to clients.

Speaker 2: 33:20

And so you know, I mean I think that coaches are great. I mean there's no real ethical guidelines or licensure code to abide by, so you have a lot more freedom and not as much boundaries when you're a coach, but you also don't have the safety net of your license and liability insurance and things like that. And so, yeah, that would make me really nervous if I was an LPC associate or trying to become an LPC associate and they were telling me just transition into this role. Now it would be different if you were a undergrad level case manager and they just said just stay in that position until you get your LPC associate license and then we'll move you up. That's different because the position you were doing was for the degree you already had, and so that's a little bit different. But saying we're going to transition you from a student counselor to a coach and then eventually to an LPC associate, that's a little messier and, like I said, it gives me the ick. I wouldn't recommend that.

Speaker 1: 34:28

And it doesn't take that long to get your license upgraded. I mean, a few years ago it took months and months and months but not upgraded. I'm sorry, your initial LPC associate license only takes a few days, right? I mean right.

Speaker 2: 34:43

It can take up a few weeks. Actually, it depends on. The big hang up is transcripts from the school and your NCE score. Those are the biggest hangups of what they're waiting on and a lot of the times, if there's discrepancies, maybe they have tried to contact you or they have sent you a message back through the portal. So if you haven't heard anything, you really do need to be logging into the portal or sending follow-up emails as well.

Speaker 1: 35:16

Okay, you mentioned. Oh wait, hold on, we got a question. Oh, caitlin says I've heard people say it takes about six to eight weeks. But that's, if you want to, we can share screen and we can actually see what where they are.

Speaker 2: 35:29

Yeah, you can share your screen. That's fine. It can take a little bit longer if there are discrepancies. So if a form is filled out wrong, if they're waiting on transcripts, if they're waiting on NCE, if they're waiting for fingerprints, something like that, it can take a lot longer.

Speaker 1: 35:52

Okay, so we're looking at the BHEC website and if we go to LPC this is find a supervisor and I put that link in your chat. We go here and we see applying for a license LPC associate. Okay, I'm in the wrong place. Somebody tell me where I need to go to see where they are.

Speaker 2: 36:29

Let me do some digging.

Speaker 1: 36:30

Let me see Okay, let me do some digging, let me see. Okay. So if you have not ever been to the BHEC website, this is a really good thing to know how to do. Oh, there, they are timelines. So this chart. What I did was I went to applying for a license and timelines which, yay, I should have seen that. And you look down here the type LPC, mft, social work psychologist, lpa and LSSP. The application date they're currently working on is March 22nd. So that was what three weeks ago, two weeks ago, and MFT literally days ago. So if you had just applied for your MFT on April 4th, that's the pile that they're working on today. So this gets updated every day, so that's not a lot of wait time.

Speaker 2: 37:26

And again, that's just as long as paperwork is as needed and they're not waiting on it Right.

Speaker 1: 37:34

If you're having issues with your self-query or your fingerprinting and things like that, then it can be longer. Okay, let me. Let's say you want to interview a supervisor and then you're working with the supervisor and you notice, wait a second, they're only seeing me in a group, like they're not. They're not seeing me individually or even triadic, or you know, they don't really meet with me for an hour. They kind of just we do a check in, then they kind of wave at me and they kind of go on about their day. What can a, what can a new associate do if that starts happening with their supervisor?

Speaker 2: 38:17

Yeah, absolutely.

Speaker 2: 38:18

If you are in a situation where you know the rules and you're like I know I need to be getting four hours of supervision a month and only 50% of that can be group.

Speaker 2: 38:31

If that's not happening, I would recommend having a conversation with your LPC supervisor.

Speaker 2: 38:38

Show them the rules and bring that up, you know, advocate for yourself because this is your license on the line as well, and so have that conversation. And if that conversation doesn't shift towards following the rules, then it may be time to talk about terminating with your LPC supervisor and finding someone else, and so that's an unfortunate circumstance and we don't like to talk about termination in supervision, but it is a necessary part sometimes, and so this is another reason why I suggest really making sure that you get to know your LPC supervisor and interview process and ask them what their supervision style is, ask them how they do supervision them, how they do supervision. So something that I do, the way I do it, is I do two hours of group every month and then every associate I have gets two hours of individual with me every month, and so that way I like doing it like that, because it creates a cohort mentality for that group and for my associates, but also they get that individual time as well.

Speaker 1: 39:56

So if you do, because you mentioned, you know, asking a supervisor about their specialty, right? So you're going to, you know, let's say, you love working with kids, and you get a supervisor who works with kids. And then you start working with kids and you realize, oh my gosh, I hate working with kids. And you start working with kids and you realize, oh my gosh, I hate working with kids. What should a supervisee or an LPC associate do if they, you know, because that's kind of what this process is about, right, you're going to try out different things and you may hate it. What kind of conversation would that look like with a supervisor?

Speaker 2: 40:28

Sure, I mean I would say that even if your LPC supervisor specializes in working with kids, it doesn't mean that they would not be a good supervisor for you to work with adults or geriatric, or group versus individual.

Speaker 2: 40:43

That's a conversation of hey, if I want to transition away from working with minors, is this something you would still feel comfortable supervising me in? So it's just a collaborative conversation of. This is what I'm thinking. Is this something you would be comfortable with? And they may say no. I actually think maybe it would be a better fit for you to transition to another LPC supervisor and then you can start that process of getting supervision until you have that other supervisor on paper and established with the state, and then your current supervisor you're moving away from can get you off their roster and transition you once you have that other supervisor in place. But yeah, it's a conversation. Just because that's not their specialty area doesn't mean they can't effectively supervise you, but it does need to be a conversation. Just because that's not their specialty area doesn't mean they can't effectively supervise you, but it does need to be a conversation.

Speaker 1: 41:41

Okay, guys, I'm looking at the chat. If you have questions, jump in, because I'm going to keep asking questions because I got a million of them. So, dr Fox, give us some career, some job coaching here. So I'm a new graduate and I get this great job opportunity at a residential treatment program for, you know, violent offenders, and I'm just like, okay, it pays, great, I've got to take this job. I mean, what would you tell me as a new graduate? Would you give me some career advice?

Speaker 2: 42:20

Yeah, I would say the first thing that I would do is do your research and see if there's a lot of high turnover in this place that you're looking at. Typically, when there's a lot of high turnover and they're promising a lot of money, it typically means that the environment, the work environment, is not that great, and so they're trying to entice people to stay there. And so do your digging. Talk to people. See if there's high turnover in that position. Really try to talk to people what that would look like If you're going to interview for a job like that. Have your questions. What does a typical day look like? Make sure that they don't. They aren't wanting you to sign some sort of a contract or non-compete clause if you decide to leave.

Speaker 2: 43:09

These are things you want to keep in mind as well, because if you get in and after three weeks you realize that this is not for me, if they had you sign a non-compete, that could be really difficult, depending on your area. And so have those conversations, do your due diligence, your Google warrior and see what you can find out. But talk to people because, as as big as Texas is, the mental health community is small and it's kind of the seven degrees to Kevin Bacon scenario of mental health which, by the way, I have met Kevin Bacon, so I'm zero degrees of Kevin Bacon, but yeah, it is is definitely you want to talk to people, you want to see what you can find. Join mental health Facebook groups. That's a really good community safe spaces to ask your questions and to pick people's brains. But find your community, reach out, do your due diligence and your Googling and try to figure that out, because oftentimes if it sounds too good to be true, it is.

Speaker 1: 44:31

And so really dig in on that. Ok, we've got a question how long do you recommend studying for the NCE before taking it? Is it true that the NCE is only taken in person?

Speaker 2: 44:44

That is not true. You can take the NCE and um, and I think even when you go to testing sites, you're taking it on a computer and so, um, I know, when I took, when I took the nce, it was in person on campus, pen and paper, which was terrible, um, by the way. But yeah, I believe it's. It's very much. You can do a testing center. There may be schools who are still having you come on campus and do pen and paper, but I don't know very many that are. So testing centers where you take it on a computer, or you can actually take it at home if you feel more comfortable there. But you will have to show your space to ensure that you're not cheating, you don't have anyone around you and things like that. So it will have to be a setup to where you can show them your space, and so that can be a little more difficult that you might have to think about. As far as how long you should study, that depends. What kind of test taker are you? What are your learning styles? I'm more of a as many different sensories as I can get in. So if I can listen to it, if I can write it out, if I can read it, if I can try to conceptualize it and apply it to my brain in different scenarios, that's the best way for me to learn. So it depends on what your learning style is, but this is not a hurry up and cram scenario.

Speaker 2: 46:06

So if you are in your internship two semester right now and you have not started studying I hate to say this, but I am a professional bubble burster, so I'm going to go ahead and say it You're already behind and so you definitely want to be studying your entire internship two semester, and that's a lot of where those as long as your university supervisor or your site supervisor approves that can be a lot of where your indirect time is going to come for your internship two semester, and so I would recommend studying the entirety of your internship two semester and, depending on the length of that semester, you may even want to extend it out.

Speaker 2: 46:48

But again, it depends on what kind of test taker you are. How long does it take you to understand the knowledge? And unfortunately, the NCE is just one of those tests that you take and you never want to take it again, like it is not a good time and no matter what you study when you're taking the exam, you're going to feel like you didn't study the right stuff. It's just one of those tests, that's just how it is, and you will literally not want to ever take it again in your life. You know so.

Speaker 1: 47:25

Do you have, do you all have, any tips on how to have a healthy balance while being an LPCA or LPC? Associate self-care tips within the transition.

Speaker 2: 47:37

Yeah, if you are transitioning from being a grad and being an LPC associate, take care of yourself and recharge, because most likely you just got done with a grad program and you are experiencing high levels of burnout or near burnout. In my program we talk so much about boundaries and self-care and I'm constantly reminding our clinical students to take care of themselves, and so really make sure you're taking that break time to recharge, reinvest in yourself. You know holler at your friends and family that you've been neglecting for the last two years. You know reconnect, get back into your hobbies, start thinking about how, what self-care activities you want to continue to implement, and remember that you know when we are doing positive coping skills. If we're not doing it when things are good, the likelihood of us doing it when things are not so great is very low. So you want to make sure that your self-care strategies are part of your everyday lifestyle so that you continue to do it and they're not just as needed PRN things. They're built into your life.

Speaker 1: 48:49

Expand on that though, because you did talk about rural. You know having to be kind of everything right. You're in a setting where you're just being asked to see everybody do all the things right. I mean, what would self-care look like in that situation? I mean it's trying to learn right.

Speaker 2: 49:07

Yeah, when you are in a rural area, you have to have really good boundaries and really perfect saying no, because everyone's going to come to you and assume that you're just going to fix it, and so you're going to have to have really good boundaries and be okay with saying no and knowing that when you say no it's okay with setting saying no and knowing that when you say no, it's not going to make people happy and that's just part of it and that's okay. And so, having really good boundaries, have a good support system. Oftentimes when you're in rural areas, you don't have the best support or resources around you. You're kind of off, you know, like a L ranger doing your own thing, but you have to find your community and have people you can still consult with and and kind of have people are going to have your back.

Speaker 2: 49:53

I'm like no, you should. You should say no to that, like you don't have time for that. And so know your limits and make sure that you have really good separation between your personal life and your professional life. For those of you who are keyboard warriors and tied to your email a lot, the best thing that I ever did was take my work email off my phone and to put away messages on every weekend, and basically my away message says I do not check email on the weekends, so you're not going to hear from me until Monday, and so I mean it says it in a nicer way than that, but that's essentially what it's saying. And so set those professional boundaries, take care of yourself, because we only have so much time in a day, and once it's gone, we can't get it back.

Speaker 1: 50:40

I love that More questions, put them in the chat, or if you feel like you need to unmute, that's OK too. Go for it. You know, one of the things you might want to ask your supervisor as an interview question is what is the latest rule update?

Speaker 2: 51:17

Do you guys know how to find that Everybody know how to go to the BHEC website and get the latest version of the rules? Yeah, that would be a great question to have it in your hand, to see if they have. If they know Because that is a big thing of being an LPC supervisor is we do have to stay up to date on all the new stuff that comes out, and oftentimes it changes really rapidly. I mean, I feel like 20 to 21 to 22,. Man, it pretty much got dumped upside down for us and we were all just scrambling trying to relearn everything. And so, yeah, if if someone has not been actively supervising for the last five years, it's completely different, and so that is something to to consider.

Speaker 1: 52:01

And this, this episode, or this training, is going to be turned into a podcast episode, so I know we'll be having some listeners who are listening to this on a replay. So we're recording this on April 10th 2024. But I hope if there is an associate listening to this right now and they're thinking, oh, wait, a second, I'm in a situation where this is the only supervisor in town and they are not meeting with me individually, I'm not getting the supervision that I need. You're feeling helpless because you really think, oh, okay, what can I do? Well, the consequence for that supervisor if they get in trouble or if they get caught, you could lose so many hours. All of that good work that you're doing could go away all of those hours because that supervisor isn't doing what they're supposed to be doing. So that could negatively impact you if you're not being assertive and advocating for yourself.

Speaker 1: 53:03

So, like Dr Fox says, having the conversation first with your supervisor right, because ethically that's what we do. We support one another. We have the conversation first. But you do not have to just have the supervisor in your town, right? You don't have to just have the supervisor at your job or just the supervisor who's free and comes with your job right. If you suspect or you feel like it's not a good situation for you, or you're doing the churn and burn and you're being used and abused and seeing 40, 50, you know people a week, you know that we need you in this profession. We don't want you to burn out. And so you know, dr Fox, what would you, what would you tell someone to do who's maybe listening to this right now and thinking, oh man, that's me, I'm in a situation and you know who do I talk to, where do I go, what do I do?

Speaker 2: 54:00

Yeah, I feel like if you're in a situation where this is resonating for you and you're thinking, man, I am not in the situation I want to be in, you need to think to yourself is it to the point where I want to leave and I want to adventure out and I want to find that? And if the answer is yes, then start making moves to do that. And you're going to need to have that conversation with your current supervisor and you're going to need to have that conversation with your current supervisor and you're going to want to have. You're going to have to find that new supervisor, because you can't be practicing without a supervisor on file. And another thing is make sure that your supervisor, your OPC supervisor, is signing off on your logs, either digitally or pen and paper, because if something happens and you have all these hours let's say, you have 1500 hours already and they do not initial or sign off on anything, and then you transition off of them, there's no proof that they approved those hours, and so you want to make sure you have your logs either signed pen and paper or digitally by your LPC supervisor as you go.

Speaker 2: 55:04

But yeah, it's, it's never fun to have difficult conversations when you know it could hurt someone's feelings, but you do have to do what's best for you and your license and and your mentorship and what's going to make you a better and more effective counselor, and so that that's hard to do. But if you're not going to advocate for you, no one else is either. So sometimes we have to advocate for ourself and you know that's what we work with our, our clients on is advocating for themselves as well. And so we got to you know, practice what we're saying as well and and advocate for ourselves. I see another question Do you recommend job hunting while still in the program? Absolutely, if you can job hunt, you know, do some exploring it. Just they may not take you a hundred percent ready to go and interview until after you are out of the program and have that license, but absolutely you can job hunt and explore and see if they're open to taking on LPC associates taking on LPC associates Awesome, let's post that Google Drive link one more time.

Speaker 1: 56:08

And, dr Fox, thank you so much. This is amazing, as always. You are always such a wealth of current information. You always have the latest, greatest information, and I just appreciate you so much for taking time out of your day and sharing this with us. And you are in the Badass Group, correct? Yes, okay, so she's in Texas Counselors Creating Badass Businesses. So if you have questions, you can tag Dr Tara, you can tag me. It's a super supportive group. If you're in it, you know that. And if you are getting a CE, you will get the PowerPoint with your certificate. If you are not getting a CE, then I'm going to ask Dr Fox's permission to put the PowerPoint in the badass group, maybe. Yeah, absolutely Awesome, great. So I will put that PowerPoint in the Facebook group. If you're not on Facebook, you're going to have to send us an email at support at katewalkertrainingcom, and that's the end of this webinar. Dr Fox, thank you so much again for all your time and wisdom.

Speaker 2: 57:15

I appreciate you. Thank you for having me have a great day. Everyone All right.

Speaker 1: 57:19

I'm Dr Kate Walker. Thank you, guys, so much for joining. Have a wonderful evening. I'll see you soon.